Who’s afraid of public insurance? THIS POST shows clearly that people taking advantage of Medicare have a considerably higher opinion of their service than privately insured people do. This particular stat is just wild:
According to a national CAHPS survey conducted by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services in 2007, 56 percent of enrollees in traditional fee-for-service Medicare give their “health plan” a rating of 9 or 10 on a 0-10 scale. Similarly, 60 percent of seniors enrolled in Medicare Managed Care rated their plans a 9 or 10. But according to the CAHPS surveys compiled by HHS, only 40 percent of Americans enrolled in private health insurance gave their plans a 9 or 10 rating.
All we need to do is drop the words “65 and over” from the Medicare plan and we’d have it nailed. What’s so tough?
Yes! Medicare for all, financed by a major cut in defense spending. Why do we have to spend 10 times as much on the military compared to the next largest spender, China? Surely 5 times would be just as good, and use our saved tax $’s for healthcare and education.
And what was that Mr Obama said last night “people are asking: whats in it for me?” Isn’t this the fundamental problem, and perhaps what America was built on, that number one “me” is more important than the common good? So what if some people lose everything or die because they get sick and have no insurance or else have insurance with exclusions for pre-existing conditions? The prevailing attitude amongst the right wing wacko’s is that as long as I am OK why should I pay anything to help such people, after all, it must be their fault they got into that position.
In short, my perspective of what we need to do (as a Brit), make paid lobbying totally illegal for both briber and bribee, produce and make public impartial studies of nationalized heathcare systems throughout the developed world and debate the pro’s and cons in congress without rushing them to pass some imperfect bill they have not had to time to read,
and get rid of the FED!
:doh:
Welcome to the party davidB, and thanks for the excellent post!
I am particularly interested in your opinions as a Brit, since the American way of thinking is that your medical system is horrible and should not be emulated at any cost.
LOL at the wrap up which covers about a dozen topics in one big sentence … gonna have to post on all of that
“he prevailing attitude amongst the right wing wacko’s is that as long as I am OK why should I pay anything to help such people, after all, it must be their fault they got into that position.”
Hi David, I’m the resident conservative around here. They all hate me but they all love me too…I think.
Anyways, to address your quote which I am fully qualified to do as I’m often considered a right wing wacko…in the flesh!
First of all there are a lot of people who have to struggle everyday to be “OK” as you put it. It ain’t easy!
I’ve got my hands full as it is just taking care of myself and the needs of my family. There are plenty of people out there who work much harder (physically) than me and make a lot less money.
They too have all they can handle taking care of themselves. It ain’t easy!
So to demand that I take care of everyone else too is just too much! I take care of myself so they should take care of themselves. I don’t ask for help from anyone ever. I go without when I have to and I blame no one for my shortcomings but myself.
I take full responsibility for the things that I lack. But many people are not like me. They do not take responsibility for their situation and the series of decisions over time that brought them there.
Another thing. When there is a way to exploit a system, people exploit the hell out of it. Whether is be a search engine algorithm or some kind of gov’t handout.
It makes me sick to think that while I bust my ass all the time just end up a little behind, others sit on their asses and exploit the system.
There are so many people on welfare in this country that are fat as hell and have like 4 dogs, 23 cats, 2 frogs, 3 lizards, 2 snakes, money for their tattoos and dope, sit on their front porch drinking 40′s at noon and 5 babies from 4 daddies they never married.
Now that might sound harsh and it’s easy to criticize and sound like you are on the moral high ground. But it’s the friggen truth man!
I don’t want to pay for Jose’s babies to go to the doctor. I think Jose should get a job or an education so he makes more money.
@Who’s fault?
It doesn’t matter to me who’s fault it is that so and so is in a tough jam. Life is tough. I still don’t want to pay for anyone elses bullshit. I have my own bullshit to pay for and that’s QUITE enough for me.
Leave my f$cking wallet alone.
Ya know, there was a time in this country when income tax was considered unconstitutional and way too much of a burden. In fact it (income tax) went to the court a number of times and was struck down more than once before a liberal court decided that it was OK.
You pay your way and I’ll pay mine thanks.
How would we have a military if not for income tax? I’d like to hear a proposal that you think is workable.
That was a favorite Reagan tactic, was it not? Referencing the Cadillac welfare queen? You and I both know you need to provide references or something resembling evidence if you want me to even acknowledge that people like Jose exist. Sure, it makes sense to me that they probably do, but I don’t know any Joses and I’ve never met one. If living off the government is so easy that any lazy schlubb could do it, why do the vast majority of us work our kiesters off?
re: Things I lack and taking responsibility – I do that too. If I want something, I go and make enough money to buy it and then I do.
I realize that not everyone is endowed with the smarts to work for himself and ride the razor’s edge, play the corporate game. It’s not that hard if you think on your feet and are willing to make a few enemies here and there when required, but not everyone can do this. Not everyone can afford health insurance. If my wife didn’t cover us, it would be about seven thousand dollars a month just to get the same (decent by today’s standards, but very crappy overall) coverage that we have now. That’s a serious option for us, but how many people can honestly afford a monthly sum like that?! The median income per family in these United States is something silly like 40k/yr. I don’t know how people live on that, much less pay the medical bills.
I can’t elaborate on my contingency plan here because if it ever hit the fan, these comments could be linked back to me.
“You and I both know you need to provide references or something resembling evidence if you want me to even acknowledge that people like Jose exist.”
Not even gonna try and bother. It’s just plain true and I’m not going to waste my time treating this as a philosophical challenge. It’s just how I said it was and if you don’t believe it then whatever.
Re. the welfare queen: this is actually a strawman because of course people like that exist, but the game was to paint everyone on welfare with that brush. There isn’t a system, business, entity or club that I’ve ever known where thee weren’t people trying to game it. I’d wager, Edgar, that you, me, VS, BD, davidB and most folks that come to my blog are of equal work ethic: personally, I’ve worked out of my home office, for my own businesses since about 1983. It takes a rigorous amount of personal discipline and focus to pull it off. I am also not one to simply grant that it’s OK to suck off the teet: my kids ask, “Why don’t we get allowance like other kids?” My response: well, there’s no one standing behind me and handing ME money just to exist, so why should you? Do something that is worth money, and you’ll make money.”
Healthcare needs to be taken care of for 2 essential reasons: A) the economics of the current system are untenable and will implode and B) it is unconscionable that the wealthiest country in the nation takes such crappy care of its citizens. I disagree with Nash, who would say that Healthcare is not a right: I assert that it is. We socially provide care already in the form of protection against fire, police support, education and roads: hell, you could say that road signs are a form of socialized healthcare if you were really bent on it.
First, the economics: People that cannot afford (or do not have a job that supplies) insurance don’t go to the doctor. They they go to the emergency room when they have a real problem – which very well could have been averted if they’d had primary care. The primary reason that people go to the emergency room (this comes from my research for the radio show) is “upper respiratory distress.” A cold. The average cost for a visit to the emergency room for a cold: just south of $1500. The average cost if sent to a primary care physician: $120. Now: since they do not have insurance and are not even required by law to give a real name, the hospital must suck up and take them (they are required by law) and then it’s simply uncompensated services or loss. There are some that would argue that it’s the illegal aliens that do this and certainly, that is a component: but it is not the majority by a long shot. The vast majority (about 70%) of emergency room visits (uninsured) are white, in the 20-50 range making just under 40K/year. The hospital, in response to the uncompensated services has to raise prices, which increases the load on insurance, which translates to our premiums (or your employers) going up. So we’re paying for it all already. And we could be paying a lot less if both the insurance company was out of the picture and everyone had primary care, which would drive the requirement for emergency services WAY down.
Re. unconscionable: We spend a lot of time talking about how great we are as a nation. We talk about our advanced citizenry and lofty ideals. Yet we let people die because we don’t want to take care of them. And know this Edgar: I’d happily pay taxes to make sure that you and your family were equally well taken care of. This is not an “I just want to give money” thing – it’s that all people, your family, my family etc should have the same basic right: that we will not be struck down by debilitating illness, that may then strike us down financially. The healthcare debacle, as it is, simply destroys families, their futures and their income. And in the grand scheme, we’re not talking about Mr. 3 packs a day or Mr. 700lbs. We’re talking about average families with sudden nastiness. Frankly, had I not been able to afford the insurance that we have, my wife’s cancer would have just beaten the crap out of us. As it was, even with insurance, the whole process killed a lot of our retirement savings.
Just as well all pay to drive on safe roads, or have our borders secured ( roflmao: roflmao: roflmao: ) I believe that health is also an essential component of a healthy society. And as we are all actually members of a society (rather than society being made up of lots of individuals) I believe it is an imperative.
@Perk
“Re. the welfare queen: this is actually a strawman because of course people like that exist, but the game was to paint everyone on welfare with that brush. There isn’t a system, business, entity or club that I’ve ever known where thee weren’t people trying to game it.”
The abuse of the welfare type systems in this country are rampant with abuse. It’s more than just someone here and there.
Sure there are people who have gone through traumatic upheavals in their lives. A mom with 5 kids who is a good person etc… and here husband dies and leaves here high and dry.
Someone whose house has burnt down etc…
I would be ashamed of this country if those people weren’t taken care of! But not by force of law!! Rather by a culture of decent, compassionate and generous people.
The sad fact is though that the welfare demographic is anything but. The real welfare cases are far and few between the exploiters.
Again, I’m leaving this as a common sense rebuttal with out any fancy footwork to back it up. Take it or leave it, that’s fine with me. It is what it is though.
“Healthcare needs to be taken care of for 2 essential reasons: A) the economics of the current system are untenable and will implode and B) it is unconscionable that the wealthiest country in the nation takes such crappy care of its citizens”
See Perk, I agree with you fundamentally. Just not tactically. Yes absolutely health care needs to be addressed. The rich pigs at the top of the food chain are exploiting the system, not unlike professional welfare cases.
Attack the problem with all we can, I’m all for it. But let’s do it judiciously and in layers and increments to avoid going overboard. Slow and steady. Fools rush in.
Let’s address egregious malpracice suits. They are what’s ruining health care imo.
Tackle that and see what happens.
Don’t rush into my damn wallet to fix the problem just yet.
“Yet we let people die because we don’t want to take care of them.”
My great grandfather, a ww1 vet, died on his way from one hospital to another back in 68. He didn’t have insurance so they kicked him out and he died.
My family taught me that it’s important to have insurance because it’s a mean old world. They didn’t bellyache about how the gov’t failed them.
We need more regulation. We need to WAY regulate who gets on welfare and who doesn’t.
Gotta keep the gov’t and lazy people out of my wallet.
You keep talking about these “real” welfare cases.
I’m wondering if you have any facts to back that up. Doesn’t sound like it from your answer to me.
Heck, I know a caseworker very well, and she told me she doesn’t have any cases who are abusive of the system.
If that is your only perspective regarding the abuse of the welfare system then I can understand why you are oblivious to the way it really is.
I have life experience that confirms my belief that welfare is routinely abused.
Where I’ve lived, the people I have known and what I see confirms it to me.
You want facts? Go and create a new circle of friends so you can experience the mindset first hand.
Has it occurred to you that you only hear about the abuse cases, and the guy who our welfare system gets through a rough patch so he could get back on his feet just doesn’t sell ad space on the news?
Vsloathe, I don’t “hear” about any of it. I don’t ‘get my info’ from the news or radio. This is life experience I’m talking about.
I personally have never been on welfare but I have lived in towns and cities and neighborhoods where everyone IS on welfare.
I know first hand how it goes. There is just no doubt about it that the hand out systems are WIDELY abused like CRAZY!
You can only observe these things for so long before you come to certain conclusions.
Welfare needs to be heavily regulated and about 90 percent of the people on the system probably just need to get a job and quit hanging around.
There are some people though who are genuinely in need. We need to make sure they get what they need but not to overburden the rest of the taxpayers by forcing them to reach in their wallet to pay for professional welfare cases.
That seems reasonable, but I’m concerned about the particulars.
Anyone can say “we need to do this”, it’s much easier to complain than help; but what’s your proposed method for doing it?
I don’t know. I haven’t given it sufficient thought but off the cuff?
Everybody’s welfare expires on such and such a date. If you want to remain on welfare you need to go and reapply.
Then a new case worker from welfare should visit the residence of the potential recipient and check it out. Do they have a zillion pets? Do they have cell phones?
Are they really in need?
Have they been on welfare for 4 years already yet they have a video collection of 127 movies?
Are there any signs of abuse of the system? Are the recipients getting FAT with the excess they receive?
You do know that welfare is handing out cell phones to the needy right?
Welfare should be given only to those who truly need it. Handicapped people with REAL handicaps. Welfare should not make people comfortable, it should just keep them fed.
Welfare recipients who have qualified for the new welfare should be forced to look for work and provide proof. If there is a suspicion that the ‘proof’ has been falsified then their welfare should be terminated.
No welfare for illegal immigrants. No welfare for people in trouble with the law. No welfare for people on drugs. No welfare for people who have kids just to stay on welfare.
THose are just a few thoughts off the cuff. I don’t really know what the complete reform would include. One thing is for sure though, we need to kick about 90 percent of welfare recipients off of welfare.
I used to drive by such people on the way to work (I work at home nowadays). I would be on my way to a long day at work and what do I see? I see our neighborhood welfare recipients on their porches, drinking a 40 at noon.
I see the same people sitting there at when I come home, on my dime. NO THANKS! Get a job!
I agree that Welfare needs regulation and a much more stringent form of vigilance. I have ZERO problem with the assertion that there are asswipes taking advantage. I think that the ratio of truly-needy to asswipe is debatable, but at the core, if the system is gameable it needs to be addressed.
Personally, I see lots of jobs that need doing. If you’re on the government dole, then I see you out there doing them. Roads need to be cleaned. Children need to be tutored. Older people need assistance getting around. Since society is essentially bailing you out, I don’t have any problem with you (the macro you) bailing it back out as well.
@ illegal immigrants: fine with that. I am, however, hugely in favor or modifying the immigration policy between us and Mexico, because since white people don’t seem to either want or are capable of doing the work, we need the workers. There needs to be an adjustment that allows for us to hire people that want to work.
@ Truly needy: This is where it’s going to get tough. That’s a pretty subjective assertion, although I get what you mean.
@ 4 years, movies: There’s just a really tough line to draw man: (I) think that what you are doing / eating / seeing / collecting etc is outside the boundaries of what I should be supporting, you’re off the dole. Well (I) don’t, let them keep going. To me, the solution is to work our way forward into meaningful and gameful employment, not spend time/money making subjective judgements on their lives. PROVIDED that the right oversight is in place and they are not just sucking off the government teet. Pets, a cell phone etc? Man you’re just asking for oversite troubles. Better to move forward into getting them all making a meaningful contribution to society, than try to make that assertion. Then, if they are truly just needy and cannot work, make a specific budgeted amount for them and call it a day. IF they eat Top Ramen but have a pet, so be it. I don’t want to be paying for a government employee to be making that decision.
@perk
“If you’re on the government dole, then I see you out there doing them. Roads need to be cleaned. Children need to be tutored. Older people need assistance getting around. Since society is essentially bailing you out, I don’t have any problem with you (the macro you) bailing it back out as well.”
I agree completely for a change. That’ll further weed out the abusers. Once they realize that welfare will not allow them to escape work they will probably decide to get an actual job that pays better than welfare.
Make it rather uncomfortable to be on welfare. Make it so welfare is a burden to the recipient and they will get sick of it.
Unless of course they are truly needy.
What is truly needy? Is it say a woman with a few kids that was married but her husband up and died? Ya know? Leaving her with the kids, the house and nothing else. That person needs help from someone and if they can’t get it from family or their local church or whatever then they should have someplace to turn for help.
This is in direct contrast to the party mom who goes out and gets laid, knocked up, kicks the new Beua out and collects both welfare and child support. Then it’s on to the next sucker.
There’s a whole lot more of THAT going on than the former.
@Mexicans, Work and White People
I don’t buy it one bit. You know why these poverty class whites wont go pick tocacco? Because they don’t have to. They screw welfare instead. Think about it. You get a few bucks from welfare, trade some food stamps for some money, pick up a dime bag and sell it.
SHA-BAM! Money Baby!!
All the welfare cases in my town are all the same. They have money for pot, beer and tattoos. That means they have too much damn money imo. No need to reach into MY wallet!
White boys will do the work if they can’t run dimebags and collect section-8 and foodstamps etc…
@movies and extra stuff
I know people on welfare that have tons of ‘shit’
Fucking, 4 dogs, 4 cats, 2 fishtanks, a turtle, a couple of frogs etc…
Why the hell do poor ass people always have to have a 2 pitbulls and a variety of animals? If you have the money for that non essential shit then get off welfare.
That is a particular pet (pardon the pun) peeve of mine.
Help the needy, be smarter than the scammers.
Based on results, white boys don’t want to do stoop labor or wash dishes. That is a problem, both with our society and the working economy. We have become a society of The Entitled, and people have forgotten what it is to do work enough to keep food on the table. That said, if white boys won’t work, then somebody needs to do it. If there was no work here, there’d be no illegal immigration problem.
Again, I am not going to pay for someone to may subjective decisions about what is acceptable or not. It is important to decide, for the truly needed, that (this amount) is enough for you to subsist. Use it as you will. Other than that, I’m calling it a day.
As soon as we put ourselves into the position of making decisions about what is right or wrong, then we will disagree and we have problems. Agree on what is “needy” and then agree on what is an acceptable living amount. Other than that, stay the hell out.
Not what is right and wrong but rather what is egregious.
Entitlement:DITTO
Everyone on welfare should have to do piss tests to make sure they aren’t blowing the money on drugs. That will get TONS of people off of welfare.
@Jobs and Mexicans
Perhaps. But I think a Mexican can find a more reasons than just work to come over the boarder. They just need to come over, have a baby or two and they get benefits.
Did you know that in Mexico a foreigner is not allow to receive any kind of gov’t assistance whatsoever?
They have strict rules about foreigners not being a burden to the tax payer.
On a side note: I can’t figure out why Mexico is so under developed compared to the US. Both countries were developed at the same exact time. Both countries are blessed with lots of natural resources…I don’t know.
I would hate to see all those illegal aliens receive free health care courtesy of ME.
White boys did the work years ago and they will do it again if they have to. Problem is you can live better on welfare than you can working for shit money.
Make welfare less lucrative, harder to receive and stay on the recipients asses to get a job and get shit straightened out.
Where does this entitlement mentality come from?
That whole “if you can’t beat em” thing. Instead of crying about people getting your money for free, go get it back at the welfare office if it’s so easy.
I’m not saying you should or that I would, but you make it sound awfully easy to get welfare money.