When I was in high school, I had a Social Studies teacher named Jim Mamer. He was a Birkenstock wearing, bearded extreme liberal that also favored the Second Amendment because an armed populace is the best way to keep a government at bay. He was an interesting one, that’s for sure. But the thing I took away most was his Proposition Parties. These were things he threw every election cycle where he’d invite his friends over for debate and discussion about all the propositions on the ballot.
Over the last 30 yearsish since, I’ve had proposition parties on various occasions, but none such a blast as I did this season.
A bit ago, PinkHat and I had several friends over for a night of buffet style dinner, lots and lots of good wine and finally, the debate. I moderate them, and there are a couple rules:
- No presidential politics
- No partisan bickering
- Be tough on the issue, easy on each other
- No one’s opinion is any less valid than anyone else
- The goal is not to create a voting bloc, but instead have everyone leave the room at the end of the night feeling smarter about how they will vote on each of the propositions.
This year was AWESOME! I was particularly pleased, because I was moved from Yes to No on one issue and No to Undecided on another – IMO, that’s about as good as it gets – respectful debate that, when disinfected by the sunlight of lots of thinking, passionate and energetic people, moves someone into a space that they did not expect and are happy with.
It’s a little late this cycle for you to throw one, but you might consider it for Monday night – a quick get-together of your mates and theirs that can discuss the issues and increase the excitement about our democracy. It is important to remember, that our democracy is OUR DEMOCRACY and action such as this, repeated thousands of times in thousands of venues, is what moves a populace towards a better republic. If we rely on the people we vote for to do all the changin’ – then we’ll only get a small subset of what we want – only then if we’re lucky.
Tuesday November 4th we vote. It is on that day we honor the blood and lives of men and women that fought for our right to do so. Do not spit upon their efforts or graves and sit home. Exercise your birthright and vote. Of course I’d prefer if you voted my way, but I’d rather you vote against and have voted, than not to have voted at all.
I already did
how many times am i gonna have to vote against that goddam gay amendment prop. sheesh. Every freakin time. Can’t we pass a law like the frivolous lawsuit law, frivolous constitutional amendment law, 3 strikes and you pay a huge fine.
Man I get it. That drivel is just horrible even to read. I was enthused that it did not get much discussion in my forum, except for people to spout quite a bit of anger back at the haters. And yes, there should be some form of “treble jeopardy” or some such that stops boneheads from re-instigating crap when it’s been soundly voted down a few times.
Surprisingly, the payday loan proposition got a lot of action as did the immigration issue, although this was hardly unexpected. I had both landscape-ish folks and restauranteers in the room which happened to be on either side of the issue. The debate there was spectacular and very good for everyone in the room.
The payday loan issue – again I was surprised to see so much passion about it. Even the right wing in the room was pissed off at the blatant avoidance of usury laws that the payday loan folks enjoy. The consensus in the room was that a NO vote will put a lot more heat under the butts of that industry to get more into line with reasonable lending laws.
Why would I even WONDER if you and yours would do such a thing?
Well done my friend.
i actually can’t even remember the immigration and payday loan things. I know I voted NO on payday, just can’t remember why now? LOL. I voted and it all fell out of my head.
What has really bothered me this season is the “vote Yes to say No” propositions. I know prop 100 in AZ is just such a beast, and I think it’s not only confusing to me, but our less-informed constituency stands little chance against these beasts.
So I’m curious … I’d actually heard very little opposition to the PayDay loan proposition, and the prop booklets didn’t give much info prior to my early voting.
q: Perk, what was your take-a-way on this proposition (if you don’t mind sharing)?
No problems Jairez, and nice to see you about
Payday Loan prop: I’m voting no, although I was originally going to vote yes.
Payday loans are pretty much the last financial vehicle for people of real challenge to be able to get swing loans and cover immediate liability – in other words, Payday Loans are to the bottom rung what credit lines (and in fact the bailout) was to Wall Street.
However, the established usury laws of the land (things like a reasonable interest rate etc) are avoided by the vendors of “Delayed Presentation Instruments” (DPI) (payday loans). The licensing statute for DPI vendors will be expiring in June 2010 ergo, all the payday loan shops on the corner will be going out of business unless the statue is renewed.
This proposition would reinstate the statute – but there are LOTS of people that want to see these businesses punished or eliminated because they are effectively legal loan sharks. So the DPI vendors came up with the concessions in the proposition that look like they are “self regulating.” However, the new regulations really don’t provide any meaningful improvements in the service for clientele.
So I am voting NO because there is still time before it expires and the vehicle will not disappear before June 2010. A no vote will put a lot more fire under their butts as well as other legislators to create some REAL meaningful regulations on that industry, because they’ll not want to go out of business, but they’ll need to be better vendors if they want to continue.
Hope this helps, it was a long debate
Thats the reason I voted NO. You reminded what the stupid prop was.
My takeaway from reading the prop was:
PDL licensing will expire in 2010, and the prop will extend the licensing, along with some other nitty gritty details that make it easier for them to do business in some respects, harder in others.
It seemed like an extension of a very bad system, when it should be retooled. Voting NO gives the PDL industry a chance to realize they need to figure out a self regulatory system, and do it fast. Stop acting like loan sharks, and start acting like small loan institutions. Similar to what Porn went through with creating its own health and regulatory oversight (though now thats toast because of the web).
Regulation on pr0n makes me sad
@The licensing statute for DPI vendors will be expiring in June 2010
This was the primary reason I in fact voted Yes on this. I believed (probably wrongly) the PDL vendors were cleaning up their act so their charters could be renewed, AND I didn’t think it fair to penalize people for using this medium to try and resolve their (hopefully) short-term financial situation.
That said, at the time I voted (several weeks ago now) I couldn’t find (really) any opposition research on this, and now within the last two weeks I’ve had a number of people approach me with reasons to vote against it.
I believe I have a hardware issue here – loose nut behind the keyboard. :doh:
I imagine this is how it feels to be a Republican(t) these days.
I was for this bill originally as well, as was PinkHat. I changed my mind during my little home debate. No worries mang, you were thinking in any case