In a judicial squeeker, California Supreme Court has overturned the popularly voted ban on gay marriage as un-Constitutional, citing that gender identity or sexual orientation should not be a reason to prohibit someone from getting their full rights under the law.
In other words, my marriage is falling apart and I’m in danger of becoming gay.
I mean really, let’s look at it. Since my gay brother is no longer held in check by the good, just and omniscient voice of the popular hysteria, he can now marry another man. If he does so, I’m desperately afraid for the success of my marriage, the sanctity of which clearly will be lessened and the entire structure of my household will begin to fall apart. Good lord – if gay is actually seen as “ok” then my wife might even want to bed another woman! Woe is me!
Wait, there could be an upside to that if she’s comfy with me sitting in the corner with some Cheetos and a PBR.
Crap but then she might want me to be with another man which…
OH FUCK! Does that make me gay? Does the fact that I just typed those words make me gay? Oh my god! I just noticed that I have a Barbara Streisand CD in my collection that I never threw away… it was given to me when I was a kid … but clearly, since I never threw it away in disgust then I must subconsciously have wanted to keep it… OH NO! Have my parents known all along and I’ve been in the dark for these many years? Have I secretly, and unbeknownst to myself, been wishing that my wife’s genitalia was a throbbing chunk of manhood??!?!?!?!?!
AAAAAAAUUUUUUGGGGGHHHH! I’m gay oh no oh god no… what will everyone think, what will my wife say? How long do I have before my wife leaves me and my children become gay satanic drug addicts? I’m going to be a divorced, gay loser with children spawn of the devil!
Wait, there is hope: if you, reading this, will just send me an email so I can fill a petition that illegalizes gayness and all thoughts related to being gay… yeah that’s it… if it’s all illegal then we can control it! We can be normal again and our lives will be ok! The beauty of the conservative notion of controlling the fundamentally flawed, evil and sinning members of the population suddenly is clear to me! Rejoice in the beauty that is government control over my desires! WAIT! I mean THEIR desires, not mine! I didn’t mean me, I mean… AUGGHHH! Do it! Send it quick! Please! Any moment now another Celine Dion tune might come on the radio and I’ll be doomed!
ah… a flawless performance Ed! (Until the part about Celine Dion – she is definitely an icon for the other team… mostly straight women I think =)
So that decision is pretty amazing, isn’t it? A Republican dominated court with three Republican judges and one Democrat made the most sweeping decision in support of gay rights in history. Pretty remarkable. The language of the ruling was the most unambiguous in support of full equality for gay people in American legal history. The ruling shaped the case arguing that sexuality is a characteristic like race and gender that has historically been a target of unfair social bias, warranting full protection under the law.
A great day for America.
Great post Ed. Very Stephen Colbert in its sly, backhanded, approach to approve and promote.
Personally, I am concerned that gay couples are going to make me look bad to my wife. At least with only straight couples to compare to, the numbers are what they are. but now, there’s gonna be like 20% more comparable married couples. The probability of making me look like a shithead just increased significantly. Thanks CA…
On a related note, I think im gonna open a wedding planning business… or at least buy stock in one. lol
“I think im gonna open a wedding planning business…”
Better hurry – the San Francisco Convention and Visitors Bureau is already planning on capitalizing on all the marriage tourism coming San Francisco’s way: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2008/05/18/BANH10O130.DTL
Thanks guys… I know I’ve been horribly remiss in posting, nice to see there are a couple folks out there still have me on their RSS
I agree, flat out amazing all the way around. I’d like to believe that this is symptomatic of a sea change coming the way of these United States… perhaps we’ve had enough of hatred and are going to start behaving like adults.
Heh, I know, I’ll stop now. No sense going overboard. Resume (Republican) party.
/p
A real zinger, Perk.
I LOLed.
Lets take a close look at what being gay really means!
Homosexuals are deviants. Correct?
Is homosexuality perverse?
Being gay isnt “gay” unless there is ‘sex’.
Loving another man does not make you gay.
Having oral sex, with him does.
So we can conclude that it is SEX that makes the sexuality!
Then why is it we should allow what has been an american tradtion since the birth of America, to be changed because of SEX! Thats ludicrous!
Whats next… allowing people who are into beasteality to also be included? When will people learn that tolerance does not have to be acceptance. There are plenty of people who do things that are moraly questionable, and still have the common sense to know that it IS questionable!
per-verse /pərˈvɜrs/ pronunciation [per-vurs]
–adjective 1. willfully determined or disposed to go counter to what is expected or desired; contrary.
de-vi-ant /ˈdiviənt/ Pronunciation [dee-vee-uhnt]
–adjective 1. deviating or departing from the norm; characterized by deviation: deviant social behavior.
I mean… do you really not get it?
Or do you…, and just justify because of some misplaced sense of empathy?
Where is your moral compass pointing? It must be spinning out of control trying to justify your beliefs?
I was wrong.
I thought your recent post about the Impeachment never happening was the most ignorant thing I’ve ever read. This post simply begs a flaming.
Your pseudo logic about homosexuality describes such a profound lack of understanding and empathy, that it’s breathtaking. And frankly, thou doth protest too much.
I think you’ve fallen prey to the Larry Craig syndrome and secretly ache for a load of man meat up your poop shoot. Perhaps it’s that you crave the feel of chest hair through your fingers, or that you’ve always fantasized about your uncle fondling you. Perhaps your “moral compass” stands at full attention when you watch WWF and you have to lie to your mother, who brings you dinner, that you have a blanket on and kleenex on the table beside you because you have a cold.
In any case, you’ve demonstrated beyond the shadow of a doubt what ignorance and stupidity in this country look like, and I do not wonder why we are in the trouble we’re in. Unlike what Senator Tim Pawlenty said, that we’re a “nation of know-nothings” – you’ve proved that we’re a nation of PROUDLY and arrogantly know-nothings.
Being gay isn’t “gay” until there’s sex? Let’s see: and men and dinosaurs walked the earth together less than 6000 years ago also, right?
Fucking grow a brain.
He’s a troll Perks. Leave him be and don’t feed him. He’s seeking attention and not interested in a genuine conversation. Conversation involves a two-way channel of communication. He’s shut off his Rx channel, he’s only Tx’ing.
That said…
Trent your your bestiality argument is a straw man. Try to follow an argument and stick to the issue at hand, ok? I can talk about the zombie apocalypse in the same breath as eating cake. That doesn’t mean we should make eating cake illegal since the frivolous indulgence in cake could lead to the zombie apocalypse (look it up, it’s been scientifically proven).
That brings me to your next logical fallacy: appeal to tradition. I’m hoping I don’t have to point out why “that’s the way it’s always been done” is an utterly useless, logically unsound, and completely invalid argument. If I do though, keep posting and I might find some time to shoot down whatever you come up with next.
I’m also hoping that you realize that my “moral compass”, and yours as well, has its place. That place is to guide our own actions and decisions. Not those of our government and certainly not those of our neighbors. If it does not harm you, you don’t get to make laws forbidding it just because you don’t like it or agree with it. Unfortunately, that’s not always the way it works in the real world. Very unfortunate. But things are changing. Thank God.
Now that I am a bit cooled off, I think it’s also REALLY REALLY important to mention that what happened in California ( prop 8 ) was NOT an attempt by “Gay Leaders” to create a new law to allow them to marry.
The ALREADY HAD THAT RIGHT under California law. Proposition 8 is specifically DENYING rights to gay people. It’s really the first of it’s kind, and most probably not the last attempt, but people of hypocritical and self-rigtheous nature to further exert their world views upon others.
Good lord I can’t even believe I read that crap. Thanks for the logical followup VS
Zombie Apocalypse = AWESOME
All i know is I want Shawn of the Dead zombies, and NOT 28 Days Later or Dawn of the Dead (2004) zombies.
Trent is safe though. The zombies want to eat brains after all.
WOW! I missed the food fight!
Hey Perk, I thought you were “Tough on the issues but easy on each other?”
Liberalism, the great BEACON OF TOLERANCE that it really is, is totally on display here in these comments.
You personally attack trent because you disagree with his opinion which btw, most people the world over happen to agree with. It’s not just Klan members who think it’s just fucking nasty to be gay you know.
This is zero tolerance for the other guys opinion.
Now why don’t you address his points and make a real debate out of this childish food fight. I thought you guys were all grown men? This is how you debate? Perk, let’s have a bit of substance here.
Sheesh, I guess the only readers you want on your blog are people who are gonna kiss your ass and agree with you. What’s up with that?
Perk:
WOW!! The hypocrisy cup has overfloweth with disdain! Have you no tolerence for my opinion? So hypocritical, to preach tolerence, and have none yourself! Completely avoiding the points that were made, running like a coward form debate!
Using big words,and avoiding the truth, doesnt equal smart! It just equals well educated idiot!
Vsloath: “If it does not harm you, you don’t get to make laws forbidding it just because you don’t like it or agree with it.” This is for you. http://www.traditionalvalues.org/pdf_files/statistics_on_homosexual_lifestyle.pdf
It’s dangerous and harmful to everyone and should be illegalized!
I’m not afraid of the Zombies. I’m afraid of the bug chasers!!
Edgar: Don’t mistake Liberalism for being willing to lie down and let a horrible, hateful, ignorant and invalid set of words fly. You righties think that just because Liberals have open minds, you can sling all the shit you want but don’t have to take it in kind?
There are no “points” in his opinion, they are the stupid rants of an ill informed and uneducated person. They are a component of why there is more hatred, intolerance and self righteous hypocrisy in the US today.
If you honestly want to have a debate where I need to provide “substance” about why being gay has very little to do with genitalia, then we have little to talk about. If you want to honestly believe that a new law that TAKES AWAY rights from individuals is a positive direction for this country and you think I need to provide substance about why state-sponsored bigotry is a good thing, then we have nothing more to talk about.
Trent: No. I have no tolerance for an opinion about PEOPLE. We can argue politics and the mechanics of it all day long. Your argument is based on a hatred of OTHER PEOPLE and your position makes OK the notion of enforced bigotry and reduced rights for a certain population of the United States. Your attitudes are what makes it OK for boys to be tied behind a truck and dragged to death.
Your notion of “Traditional Values” are fine… FOR YOU. Do not use them as a sledge hammer against other people unless you agree with the notion that HATE is a “Family Value.”
You made NO VALID POINTS AT ALL and therefore there is nothing to debate. You simply shout from a position of ignorance about homosexuality, people, rights and freedoms of the US. Your bigotry is so ugly it disgusts me.
I’ll debate politics all day long gentlemen. But when it comes to outright bigotry and hatred of other humans you may go elsewhere to argue.
“Edgar: Don’t mistake Liberalism for being willing to lie down and let a horrible, hateful, ignorant and invalid set of words fly.”
Are you saying that anyone who thinks it’s wrong to be queer is hateful? You can’t condemn homosexuality without being a hate monger? There you go using the “H” word with reckless abandon again.
The only sign of any hate I see here is the way you and your liberal friends (who must all be gay) personally attack a guy by calling him names and whatnot.
From the outside looking in I see that trent stated his opinion and you all just rat packed him.
Perk, let me explain something to you. You can’t exercise tolerance when it’s easy and not exercise it when it’s tough. Real tolerance isn’t a fun or easy thing. Tolerance is unpleasant and I see that you have no stomach for it.
By definition Perk (and you can’t deny this honestly) homosexuals are in fact deviant and perverted. It’s not hate speech but a definition. You know…the dictionary?
good point edgar.
Facts. Definitions. Points. All being evaded!
“There are no “points” in his opinion, they are the stupid rants of an ill informed and uneducated person. They are a component of why there is more hatred, intolerance and self righteous hypocrisy in the US today.”
And yet all the hate spuing, is coming about in YOUR text. Your intolerence is why hatred flows so fluidly throughout the country. I have provided statistics, and definitions seeking debate and instead I got a ten year old plugging his ears yelling… NAH NAH NAH I cant hear you!!
“If you honestly want to have a debate where I need to provide “substance” about why being gay has very little to do with genitalia, then we have little to talk about.”
Yes Perk. Very little. because it’s a fact. Men have a penis, and women have vaginas. Maybe you didnt learn this in college.
ho-mo-sex-u-al-i-ty
[hoh-muh-sek-shoo-al-i-tee,
–noun sexual desire or behavior directed toward a person or persons of one's own sex.
"No. I have no tolerance for an opinion about PEOPLE"
So your opinion on President Bush doesnt count? Or are you going to say 'well it doesnt count because he's a politician'. I guess we should just let the goverment tell us who we're allowed to have opinions on. Right!?
"Your bigotry is so ugly it disgusts me"
big-ot-ry Pronunciation [big-uh-tree]
–noun, plural -ries. 1. stubborn and complete intolerance of any creed, belief, or opinion that differs from one’s own.
So Perk! By definition…YOU are the Bigot!
“But when it comes to outright bigotry and hatred of other humans you may go elsewhere to argue.”
By your own entry Perk, you have spued out more hatred and bigotry than anyone on this blog. Disgraceful!! You should be ashamed of yourself and apologize for all the mud slinging and keep to the issues!
This is the problem Trent, Liberals are always bashing traditionalists for being intolerant yet when you disagree with a liberal they are intolerant.
What they don’t understand is that liberalism is an opinion as is conservatism. Yes it’s a philosophy but it’s also an attitude.
Liberalism or conservatism are neither based on verifiable fact but rather a general conclusion that stems from your core beliefs about absolute truth and relative morality.
Liberals are hell bent on forcing traditionalists to accept all things gay and socialist. They want to shove gayness down our throats (no pun inteneded)and take offense when we barf it up.
The simply can’t understand why regular guys find the idea of sticking our dicks up another guy’s hairy shitty ass repulsive. They just don’t see why we don’t condone this behavior.
I think most liberals have gay tendencies anyway and in fact I think that is the reason so many liberals become liberal in the first place.
Sexual preference…how about sex with animals? What’s ‘Wrong’ with that? Put a condom on and have at it! Where do you draw the line and why?
Prostitution…what’s the BFD? Incest…who cares? Swingers fucking each others wives, who cares?
Why can’t a man marry two woman? Is that ‘wrong’ too? It’s ok to stick it up another guy’s hairy ass but it’s just “WRONG” to marry two woman?
What about sex with ‘willing’ children? What’s wrong with that? So a guy bangs a 14 year old girl and she wants more…is that OK too?
Ever wonder why homosexuals have always been a minute demographic? Why have we as humans evolved away from homosexuality?
Perk, when you get done watching your shemale porn and come back to this blog to answer me do me a favor and don’t tell me I’m ignorant and full of hate huh?
You don’t get to pick whether or not you’re gay. It’s an uncontrollable result of a genetic predisposition to be attracted to one sex or another. You never chose to be attracted to women, and neither did I.
Treating someone any differently at all because of something that is beyond his or her control is the very definition of bigotry and intolerance.
There’s nothing wrong with being intolerant of intolerance. We’re only human, and when we see opinions displayed that in so many words tell another human being that he or she is worth less than a human being who was born with “normal” sexual predispositions, it’s worth getting upset about.
Sorry. It moves beyond politics when you try to espouse an opinion that denies another person his God-given rights.
And Trent come on…Are you seriously trying to pass off that propaganda as “Facts”? Seriously man, that’s just asinine. Homosexuality has 0 effect on you, let’s be grown-ups. You just think it’s gross, it’s ok to admit it. I think you have difficulty with the idea that just because you think something’s gross doesn’t mean it should be illegal.
Edgar don’t be childish. So liberals are “socialist”? Please, read a history book.
And stop relying on the socialist bogeyman to galvanize all the idiots out there. Socialism is a by-product of civilization. If no socialism persisted in our society, culture, and economic system, we would be in a sad state indeed. No roads, no schools, no fire or police departments or public libraries. I suppose the schools and public libraries going away would be just fine with you, though. A thinking populace is not a good thing for the neocon pseudo-populist new elite.
Vsloathe
Sucking another guys dick is not genetic. You have got be the biggest sucker in the world (no pun…) to believe that bullshit. That’s called justification. Gay liberal scientists *try* to justify homosexuality with some weak theories regarding genetics and homosexuality.
You take it as fact but not all scientists agree with those theories. It’s not a fact.
You are so selective in what science you choose to believe.
Socialism is not having schools and libraries and you MUST think I’m an idiot to start with that stuff. That has got to be the worst argument against socialism there is.
What do I have to do? Define socialism so we can agree what we are arguing about? WTF? Let me make this simple. Government should only raise taxes to provide those things that all of us need. That can be defense, infrastructure and school just to name a few. The government should provide according to the will of the people. Both socialism and capitalism do just that. So what’s the difference? The main difference is that aside from the normal responsibilities of the government, socialists believe we should also take money from the successful and give it away to the less successful, for no other reason but to spread the wealth.
A graded tax system is not socialism either by the way.
Schools and libraries…pfff :doh:
Schools and libraries are socialism. Socialism is inherent to our system. Your taxes pay the salaries of teachers and librarians, don’t they?
Tell me, please: when did you choose to be straight? I’m genuinely curious. I can’t point to a time that I decided I was going to find women sexually attractive, I just naturally do. I don’t know any gay people who said “I really would like to be a social pariah. I think I’m going to find people of the same sex attractive from now on.”
@edgar
“The main difference is that aside from the normal responsibilities of the government, socialists believe we should also take money from the successful and give it away to the less successful, for no other reason but to spread the wealth.”
you’re a moron who has fallen for the rhetoric of the capitalist free marketers. You stated what COMMUNISM is, not socialism. Ask any wealthy person in Sweden if they feel the way you just stated, most don’t.
on the subject of gay. You honestly believe that gay people chose a lifestyle that causes them to be ridiculed, threatened, and denied rights? you’re insane. Thats like someone choosing to be born without an arm. Thats not genetic, but yet they had no choice.
“You don’t get to pick whether or not you’re gay. It’s an uncontrollable result of a genetic predisposition to be attracted to one sex or another”
I’m looking for facts to back up these statements. Your wanting us to assume that you have secretly found the “Gay Gene” and are now revealing it on this blog. AMAZING!
“You honestly believe that gay people chose a lifestyle that causes them to be ridiculed, threatened, and denied rights?”
Yes. I beleive (my opinion) that before the great FAD known as homosexuality became the “in thing”, most homosexuals liked the lifestyle of being different. Since then, it has become more a mainstream style of living, and views have severely changed.
Do you think pedophiles CHOOSE to like having sex with kids! It must be the pedophile gene!!
Can you prove that sexuality is not taught. NO. Neither can I. Thats why we cant be passing crazy laws on dangerous assumptions.
If one day, they do find that crazy little “gay gene”, I’ll be forced to agree that it’s not your fault you like having mens penis’s in your mouth and or ass! roflmao:
I’ll usually be the first to split hairs, so I’ll apologize for using the word genetic. It’s a placeholder for whatever you think should be there. Uncontrollable, whatever that means to you.
I know it’s anecdotal, but it’s still incontrovertible – when did you choose to be straight? And re: pedophiles, bestiality – once again stick to the topic at hand. We’re talking about consenting adults.
Holy fuck this discussion is amazing. So much so, that I’ll be quoting a bunch of it in a completely new topic right on this line. But first a couple clarifications:
“Liberalism is the great beacon of tolerance” … you completely misunderstand. Liberalism believes in the fundamental goodness of man, conservatives rely on the fundamental evil of man. Democrats are whom often get soft and don’t stand up for what’s right to the demagogic right-wing bullshit. I am an extremely non-violent, war-as-the-last-option peacenik that holds a black belt in Jujitsu and is pretty good with a rifle. I am 100% in support of our troops even as I am utterly cynical about the motives of my government. I am a strict disciplinarian with my children and hold strong family values – probably way stronger than most who cross my path. You clearly must assume that “Religion” is a prerequisite for morality and right wing indignation is a prerequisite for strength. You would be wrong.
Both of you two are wrong about homosexuality and Liberals. It is clear that you neither have any real experience of either or understanding. I’ll be posting to help you out with that.
Stay tuned my white, misanthropic friends: logic tempered by empathy and the strongest of value frameworks is on the way.
Donkey
No Donkey you are the moron. Communism is not what I described above but rather what Marx describes below.
“Abolition of private property. … Abolition of the family! … Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality … this cannot be effected except by means of despotic inroads … In short, the Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.”
*Gayness…*
As a matter of fact I know a few gays that have gone straight and said and spilled their lifes beans for me and others to hear.
*Perk*
Liberalism is about relative morality and tolerance. Every time I am about to respect your intelligence you say something stupid like, “conservatives rely on the fundamental evil of man.”
conservatives have principles like:
1. there exists an enduring moral order (absolute truth, not relative morality)
2. their principle of imperfectability
3. voluntary community,as opposed to involuntary collectivism
4. prudent restraints upon power and upon human passions (don’t be gay)
5. Prudent reconciliation of a society’s permanence and progression.
I ask you where does you sense of right and wrong come from? Is a something that is taught? If so then that speaks to tradition and convention and thus conservatism. The principle of prescription as it has come to be known. Standing on the shoulders of a giant where the giant is the cumulative wisdom of past generations ie tradition.
If your sense of right an wrong does not come from traditional values then where does it come from?
It comes from either tradition (which is a conservative value) or God which speaks to absolute truth.
The liberalism of today is more along the lines of “Communism abolishes eternal truths, it abolishes all religion, and all morality …”
and “Communists everywhere support every revolutionary movement against the existing social and political order of things.”
as Marx once said.
Here’s a great example of liberalism at it’s finest most tolerant apex.
“By kgw.com Staff and The Associated Press
Jack McClellan, who gained pariah status among parents because of his now-defunct Web site that featured photographs he took of little girls in public places, has moved to Portland, citing its reputation as a “haven for offbeat people.”
McClellan talks to KGW, says he doesn’t break any laws
McClellan told KGW he used to author a blog where he described his fondness for underaged girls. Though the 45-year-old admits he is sexually attracted to girls, he said he has never molested one. McClellan said he started the Web site as a form of therapy.
He was arrested in August at the University of California, Los Angeles, after violating a restraining order requiring him not to loiter or congregate within 30 feet of minors, police alleged.
Background: Self-described pedophile arrested near UCLA last August
Why he moved to Portland
On Wednesday McClellan appeared on radio station KEX and said he moved to Portland for the “liberal, tolerant” climate the city was known for. He told interviewers he had been in town for a few days and was living off money from the government.”
Come to my town buddy
@vsloath, brain donkey, perk and the other libs
Do you beleive in god?
“I know it’s anecdotal, but it’s still incontrovertible – when did you choose to be straight? And re: pedophiles, bestiality – once again stick to the topic at hand. We’re talking about consenting adults.”
This IS the topic at hand. Do you like beer? I like beer. I havnt always liked beer. I had to learn to like it. an ‘aquired’ taste. Now when i drink it it tastes good. WHY?
Humans learn by simple logic. Pain or pleasure. Everything you enjoy can be associated by some sort of link to pain… or pleasure. This doesnt give, what you have associated, any impowerment of morality. Morality is taught. So while you associate a penis in your mouth and or ass as pleasure, it has no moral validity. Everything that ‘feels’ good, may not be, and probably is’nt! You have to rely on your moral conscience. Where did you learn yours?
Chances are, the most of your teachings stemed from christianity. Somewhere along the line, you’ve learned to use justification as a tool to help you feel better about going against laws of nature and your sense of self guidence. Seriously gone astray.
With this in mind… Not all conservatives follow there moral conscience. The diference is the willingness to admit that your crossing the moral boundries, instead of justifying them to suit your wants.
another question…
Why are heterosexuals called ‘straight’?
Straight
Pronunciation: \ˈstrāt\
1 a: free from curves, bends, angles, or irregularities
2 a: lying along or holding to a direct or proper course or method
3 a: exhibiting honesty and fairness
HUH! so by definition being straight is the norm. Any takers?
@god
Nope I don’t, and never have. I also do not believe in pixies, dragons, ogres, the tooth fairy, sandman, boogieman, or santa claus.
But I also don’t care if you do or not. you want to believe in ghosts or angels or god, go right ahead, until your belief starts to impinge upon my personal liberties. And that is not just because I am an Atheist. If you are christ/cath ask almost any Jew (or vice versa) if they care which god you believe in, and they won’t, unless you say they are wrong and punish them for it, by way of say, not allowing them into public school… or to get married.
Why don’t the GOP have a hissy fit about Jews being married by the wrong god? Or hindus or muslims? Why do they get the tax breaks and legal rights of marriage when they are doing it under the “wrong god”? After all, they “chose to be hindu” right? Since afterall, they can change to any other religion and be welcomed. Get my drift?
See, the problem is that conserves generally argue a point as if the statements they make are the only point of view with value and sense to back it up. It’s of course a requirement of argument that you have conviction, but that does not mean you have to be so narrow in view.
You guys are claiming that gays should not get marriage rights because they chose to be gay, or, to change it around, they chose to not change to being straight. Same exact thing can be said about religious choice. Jews could always change to hindu, hindu could always change to christian, muslims could become catholics. There is one path not “truly” available, and that is to become a Jew. You can practice the Jewish faith, but you are not jewish without blood. Though, that is a semantic issue, not a faith issue.
So when are you going to start crying out for the banning of all Non-Christ/Cath marriage? I’m waiting.
@straight
Your arguing a slang colloquial usage as fact? LOL
I’ll bite anyway. Straight can be taken to mean “normal” from def 1 and 2, I will grant that. However, I will then define normal…
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
in otherwords, the average. Quick math lesson… When you have only 2 groups in a statistical set, the average will ALWAYS be the majority. Hetero is the majority, therefor it is the average, and acquired the slang term straight.
It also does not imply that not being straight is wrong, just that you are not straight. Minorities can be right. It happens all the time with surveys and tests in school. Ever take a test where everyone got the question wrong, except for 1 kid?
@ Edgar & the definition of conservatism: Start here. This is the proto-conservative from which almost all conservative philosophy has been built. So called modern conservatives avoid talking about the essence from whence they came, but the ideals make clear why they believe the way they do:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Hobbes
Right vs. Wrong: The conservative notion is that a strong government and a strong religious hand are required for us to both have and know right and wrong. I submit that RELIGION IS NOT A PREREQUISITE FOR MORALITY. Neither, is the religious notion of morality either absolute or correct.
@ Liberal Tolerance of Child Pr0n: Good luck, trying to pin Liberals with child porn as an acceptable component of “tolerance.”
@ NBs: nice logical wrap on “Straight.”
I’ve chosen to believe that there’s a God and that the Christian version comes close enough, in spite of a staggering amount of philosophical and syllogistic evidence to the contrary. Pascal’s Gambit falls flat on its face once you realize that every major religion in the world has as one of its core beliefs that it is *the* only correct religion. That’s asinine. So I won some cosmic lottery and God’s going to damn billions and billions of members of the human race to an eternity of torment, but I got off the hook because I happened to be born in the right place at the right time and was taught the right things?
Regardless, you really ought not to get your morality from a religion. The morals that religions teach are incredibly subjective, though you may not believe they are (quite the opposite, I’d suppose). We must have a canon by which to judge the canon. E.g. “god said so” doesn’t cut it, sorry.
What’s so bad about homosexuality? You think it’s gross? God told you not to do it, right alongside 300 some odd other laws you don’t observe? Wait, nevermind. I’m sure you’ve never looked in the mirror on a Saturday or eaten pork.
“@vsloath, brain donkey, perk and the other libs
Do you beleive in god?”
I would also implore you not to make assumptions. I’m not a liberal.
They don’t have a category for my political views in the United States political spectrum, but I don’t care for labels so it fits. Labels are largely for idiots. I’m me, and I don’t need anything else. If you need more so you have a nice box into which you can place me, I’ll tell you where you can put that idea.
*Vsloathe
“I’ve chosen to believe that there’s a God and that the Christian version comes close enough,”
I’m a little confused as to your answer here. You chose to believe in God? What is his name?
*Labels
A label is just a name man relax. If you are White then it’s OK to ‘label’ you as White because you are. If you are gay it’s ok to label you as gay because it’s true.
What’s up with your strong desire to avoid any label? Don’t get it…
“We must have a canon by which to judge the canon. E.g. “god said so” doesn’t cut it, sorry.”
1. love your neighbor as you love yourself — vsloathe, by what canon will you judge this?
2. do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you. –Do we really need to measure this and who has the final authority to judge this?
3. Turn the other cheek –
If the whole world did those three things above, theoretically there would be no war. But people don’t do as they ought to conservative and liberal alike.
The crusaders didn’t follow these principles and neither did the Grand Inquisitors. Instead they followed the morality that was relevant at that time.
@vsloathe
“I’m not a liberal.”
Why do you chose to reject liberalism then? How do you know you are not liberal?
Let me get this straight –you believe in God and you are NOT a liberal. Yet you are such an enigma that you simply can’t be ‘labeled.’
Mystery of Mysteries, Vsloathe believes in God and is not liberal yet completely defies classifation. I feel like I’m watching The Wall…
Um, Edgar: so “if you’re gay, it’s OK to label you as gay because it’s true.”
Absolutism, as such, would require that “gayness” is a state that you either are, or are not – much akin to if you are white, or not. Which you have no choice of. Thank you for conceding the point.
Absolutism, as such, would require that “gayness” is a state that you either are, or are not – much akin to if you are white, or not. Which you have no choice of. Thank you for conceding the point.
All I see him conceding to is that if you decide to put a penis in your mouth (willingly of course) then you can be labeled gay…. because you are!
Being white, is a large classification. It covers a LOT of races. I mean… If I go tanning and my color changes, am I not white now? Sheesh!
Vsloath,
I bet you have a nose ring, purple hair, all black clothes, and stand on the corner smoking ciggarettes saying to the passer by’s, “hey, look at how different I am”
you’ve obviously never read the bible front to back. There is a reason it’s written with parables. So even people like you can understand. All you have to do is read it. Even if you dont want to beleive in God it will still give you a sense of SOLID morality.
If we all stuck to what the bible says we should, the world would be at peace. That is a FACT! There doesnt need to be any more laws passed to try to achieve this. If people refuse to follow the simple guidelines of what we know to be true, then how will passing more laws help? How will changing help? It wont. We as a human race will always have war. One side will be right, One side will be wrong. FOREVER! We will not ‘evolve’ beyond this. We’ve been doing this since the beginning of what we know as time. We as a human race have always been intelligent. We would have ‘evolved’ to something different by now. We are what we are.
@edgar
“1. love your neighbor as you love yourself
2. do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you.”
I love myself alot, and I masturbate. So i guess I need to pay my neighbor a visit? It’s dude btw.
Don’t even get me started on turning the other cheek. You are fairly correct though, those 3 “laws” are all that are really needed if everyone would follow them.
@edgar again
“Let me get this straight –you believe in God and you are NOT a liberal. Yet you are such an enigma that you simply can’t be ‘labeled.’”
my head just sploded. You said I hate god because I am a liberal, but yet you are confused because V is a God believing Non-Liberal?
@trent
I wouldn’t roll the “never read the bible” dice in this crowd.
I will list my cred for you
new testament 2 times
old testament 3 times
koran 1 time
assorted hindu scripts
assorted Buddhist writings
it’s been a few years of course. I’m thinking I need another good reading about magic and war, OT it is!
You seriously are going to put it out there that:
“If we all stuck to what the bible says we should, the world would be at peace. That is a FACT! ”
Wow, thats just absurd. Even within the singular religion of Catholicism there is dissent and conflict since the start. Crusades did not just occur to change heretics of other faiths, but heretics within. Templars vs Priory vs Opus vs about 20 other groups.
I guess your right though. If we were all White, middle aged, equal education, equal faith, equal income, equal lifestyle, equal *, then we would all get along. Like in communist russia.
gah i missed the tail end of my sentence in a rush to take a shower for TG.
I meant: Templars vs Priory vs Opus vs about 20 other groups that may or may not have actually existed.
And, i realize that Buddhism is not “technically” a religion, and does not have a GOD but a “god” but it is practiced like one, so I count it since its so widely practiced.
Oh and, Happy Thanksgiving everyone.
::turkey::
“Vsloath,
I bet you have a nose ring, purple hair, all black clothes, and stand on the corner smoking ciggarettes saying to the passer by’s, “hey, look at how different I am”
you’ve obviously never read the bible front to back. There is a reason it’s written with parables. So even people like you can understand. All you have to do is read it. Even if you dont want to beleive in God it will still give you a sense of SOLID morality.
If we all stuck to what the bible says we should, the world would be at peace. That is a FACT! There doesnt need to be any more laws passed to try to achieve this. If people refuse to follow the simple guidelines of what we know to be true, then how will passing more laws help? How will changing help? It wont. We as a human race will always have war. One side will be right, One side will be wrong. FOREVER! We will not ‘evolve’ beyond this. We’ve been doing this since the beginning of what we know as time. We as a human race have always been intelligent. We would have ‘evolved’ to something different by now. We are what we are.”
Whoa, chill with the ad-hominem. I don’t have any piercings or tattoos, and I look like a Bible salesman. Point of fact, I am a few classes away from my MDiv, if I ever wanted to go back to school. I worked at a seminary for several years, point of fact. My decisions come well-researched. I’ve not only read the Bible cover to cover (several times), but I’ve read innumerable exegetical and complementary texts. My brother (with whom I am very close) is also a theologian, he’ll be working on his doctorate (or 2) soon, and he reads Greek and Hebrew like you and I read English.
Once again, your assumptions are just silly.
If I had to pick a label, I would pick “anarcho-syndicalist”. If you want to know what that’s about, read some Noam Chomsky. I don’t believe in the sovereignty of nations at all, and I believe that the ideal world has no nations or borders whatsoever.
–“We must have a canon by which to judge the canon. E.g. “god said so” doesn’t cut it, sorry.”
1. love your neighbor as you love yourself — vsloathe, by what canon will you judge this?
2. do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you. –Do we really need to measure this and who has the final authority to judge this?
3. Turn the other cheek –
If the whole world did those three things above, theoretically there would be no war. But people don’t do as they ought to conservative and liberal alike.
The crusaders didn’t follow these principles and neither did the Grand Inquisitors. Instead they followed the morality that was relevant at that time.–
A logical canon. I need a reason /why/ something is wrong or right, not just a proclamation that it is.
Sorry, I suppose I’ve always had a problem with authority.
@Perk
“Um, Edgar: so “if you’re gay, it’s OK to label you as gay because it’s true.”
Absolutism, as such, would require that “gayness” is a state that you either are, or are not – much akin to if you are white, or not. Which you have no choice of. Thank you for conceding the point.”
Wrong Perk. You injected the idea of absolutism here. My statements do not. Example: if you suck another guys dick everyday then you are gay. If you decide to stop and never ever suck dick again then you have ‘gone straight’ as many have.
In this case after ‘going straight’ (2 old friends from my high school have ‘gone straight’) you no longer engage in gay activity. Therefore from that point on it is not correct to label that person as gay but rather straight.
Another example. If you weigh 500 pounds it would be an apt label to call you ‘fat’ yet if you lost weight and only weighed 150 pounds then ‘fat’ would no longer apply.
Why don’t you read some of that Locke and Hobbs you are always talking about so you can at least understand the basic terms of philosophical discussion and when they apply. Thanks. :nerd:
@Vsloathe
“A logical canon. I need a reason /why/ something is wrong or right, not just a proclamation that it is.”
OK.
Pay attention Vsloathe because this is DEEP.
1. love your neighbor as you love yourself — this is good because love is good and if everyone in the whole world followed this advice there would be more love and less hate.
2. do unto others as you would wish them to do unto you. –Vsloathe, this is good because people don’t want other people to mistreat them in any way. Therefore you would likewise not mistreat people.
If everyone in the world followed this advice there would be much less lieing, theft, adultery, rape, murder, war, torture etc…
3. Turn the other cheek –
This obviously speaks to tolerance, patients, prudence and understanding. This is good because if everyone in the whole world was able to turn the other cheek it would promote prudence, patients, understanding and tolerance. This would mean a reduction in violence, war, torture and other acts of vengence.
If the whole world did this it would be good.
However, if the whole world and everyone in it were gay then that would be bad. It would bring certain death eventually. That’s why it’s not good.
Do you think I take issue with any of those? It’s the ludicrous and asinine portions of the Bible that should be scrutinized logically.
This guy’s just a troll. I’m done posting on this comment thread.
@Vsloathe
“Do you think I take issue with any of those?”
yes I do. Why?
You copied, pasted and quoted those three points directly and asked for further clarification. It’s right there above. It just doesn’t get any simpler than that.
I answered you directly.
Vsloathe, I didn’t mean to offend you in any way and even though I think you are wrong and too easily convinced, I still enjoy debating with you. Please don’t be offended.
People like me are good for you and perk and the others. Either I will cause you to change your mind about some convictions you hold or you will be forced to sharped your rebuttal and better understand and express your own convictions.
That is the purpose of debate. It’s not a food fight.
“People like me are good for you and perk and the others. Either I will cause you to change your mind about some convictions you hold or you will be forced to sharped your rebuttal and better understand and express your own convictions.”
Or perhaps we will break through that conflicted, hypocritical and ill-thought-out opinion of yours and have more clear thinking in the world.
I doubt it, but it’s possible.
Let’s see: in the last several posts I’ve read of yours you’ve been through “So what, another baby” “Boo fucking hoo, poor terrorists” and (essentially) “It’d be good if we all learned to turn the other cheek.”
You hold no convictions at all and spout words of debate because you think this is sport. Without convictions, your arguments are simply empty rants.
I don’t take issue with any of the three commandments you mentioned. No one should. They’re good ideas. They’re really hard for us humans to stick to, but we’d be far better off if we did anyway.
I don’t take issue with any of the “good” stuff in the Bible or any other religious texts. It’s more the hypocrisy, absurdity, and sheer ludicrousness that occasionally rears its ugly head in books that were written thousands of years ago by people wandering the desert.
For example, 1 Kings 2:23-24. 42 children make fun of a bald guy, so God sends bears to tear them apart. Family values all the way right there.
Now please, don’t get the impression that I don’t hate kids, or that I wouldn’t like to see them all mauled by bears, because that would be freaking cool. I’m just saying it doesn’t mesh so well with the New Testament message.
@Perk
“Let’s see: in the last several posts I’ve read of yours you’ve been through “So what, another baby””
It was a joke! A jab at the typical “overpopulation” thing…Sheesh come on man. That doesn’t reflect my convictions and you know it. Don’t be cheap.
hope everyone had a jolly thanksgiving.
@perk
Do you litter?
um… “litter?” sorry man, you lost me there…
sorry perk… i put it on your other article. i thought it fit better.