good afternoon (wind0ze) eggheads!

i'm curious what your opinions are on what the best language for writing commercial software is in terms of development & more importantly ease of deployment. the

.NET

  framework scares me in that in order for customers to run my software they'd need the framework. non geeks who don't know shit about computers might have a tough time with that one. an installer which checks for the proper framework and installs it with minimal interaction would make things easier, i'll have to look into that.

i've been considering both c++ (would prefer not to go this route as it'll take 50x as long to develop compared to

.NET

  and delphi

thoughts?

There's a redistributable installer iirc. People who say "you have to install the

.NET

  framework first!!111" are just lazy. Or they don't want a bloated installer. Gauge your audience's technical savvy, and then do what makes the most sense in that regard.

they're at the bottom of the barrel in terms of savvy, installation needs to be as simple and painless as possible.

i don't mind a bloated installer, if that's what it is going to take to have an all-in-one installer, so be it. as long as it's simple enough for a tard to install 

http ++

ajax

  == browser based ap w/o need for installer.

All of your <>backdoor installs pretty neat aps are safe from....

the software is for the desktop not web-based, so an installer is a must.

yeah win32, and the software is a broad range of things like mp3 players, games, etc. all sorts of utility/entertainment-type software.

use a cross platform gui,
fltk,qt,wxwidgets etc
that way u do not have to worry about that stupid shit

i don't want it to be cross platform, only windows. i think you guys are looking too deep into this.

be pretty silly not to do cross platform
go search for the various tool kits to see what i mean.
QT which is the best is a cross platform gui, but pricey
it is a thin layer to various OS API

so u just take code and compile for what ever platform, and u have the speed of C++
it will compile for

linux

 ,windoze,

mac

  and some embedded devices.

there are also binding for the above for

perl

 ,

python

  etc.
Fltk is the fastest, but lacks features.

Also the native windoze api sucks shit.

again it will only be windows for various reasons.

linux

  is not my target market, os x isn't either (yet). windows-only 

back on topic  maybe i chose the wrong place to ask a windows question 

It all really depends on what you are doing.
As a rule of thumb use the gnu compiler suite.
Gcc/G++ etc.
For starters it is free and ontop of it you write your C/C++ code pro

perl

 y it is just a matter of getting the appropriate compiler for what ever platform you are using and recompiling.

Ussually a scripting language which can be compiled and is extentable in C/C++ (or can load dlls is best best).
Make the parts which do not need speed in the scripting language.
Parts that need speed in C/C++.

Good scripting languages which fit the bill are

perl

 ,

python

 ,ruby and lua (there are probably others).
Each has its advantages and disadvantages.

Python

  has interfaces to all of the above GUI toolkits i mention above.

So if u are making a MP3 player.
Make the gui part all in lets say

python

 .
encoding/decoding part in C/C++ (compiled as a dll/so)
and it is inheritently cross platform.
Speed of the gui does not matter (relatively speaking).
If it takes 5ms to respond when user clicks button as opposed to 3ms who cares.
Decoding the mp3 speed does matter so C/C++

So as rule of thumb, you prototype in scripting language.
Once it is running parts where speed matters you make C/C++.

Lets say someone wants version on

Mac

 OS.
If you did ur above work proper, in a few hours u can make a

Mac

 OS version.

Anyway that is my 2 cents.

I write

.NET

  programs in managed C++ all the time. C# is not far away from C++ and is a CLR language along with C#, VB, J#, and managed C++. Look at Visual C++ Express and Visual C# Express. Smart installer is good, yes. Other options for C++ are QT (need a license) and GTK. Eclipse, DEV++ (something like that, bloodshed's IDE), there are others, Mono is an option......

I know almost nothing about Delphi, ask anyone 

Cheers,
td

yesterday i got delphi 2007 (try before buy!  ) and it seems pretty good, i'll have to brush up on my pascal.

@td: how large do the smart installers end up being? do they download the framework from the

net

  if it isn't found on the computer? an installer like that could be good to cut down on size (i would offer both types of installers though). granted most people these days have broadband, size may not be an issue.

i'll look into smart installers sometime soon

Delphi is the underdog, but it is my favorite IDE and language to this day. I probably can't help much anymore (Jammaster is probably more on the dot than I am today) but I will if I can.

Good luck - that's a great choice if you choose it.

90% of successful software is made with C/C++ as a base, with some sort of scripting language internally to configure etc.
Prime examples are e

mac

 s and and autocad.