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Author Topic: Chinese companies 'rent' white foreigners  (Read 3867 times)
isthisthingon
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« on: November 14, 2010, 10:28:42 PM »

http://www.cnn.com/2010/BUSINESS/06/29/china.rent.white.people/index.html?iref=obnetwork
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perkiset
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« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2010, 11:10:19 PM »

Wow that's funny ... I suppose not entirely unexpected, but funny to be so blatant.

Hey watch - here comes Nop with a penetrating post in response ...
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« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2010, 12:58:24 AM »

That's pretty embarrassing for the whole global business culture. Chinese are doing this because it obviously works, so how "racist" is the business world really when your company or innovation doesn't count as much just because you are not white. That's just sad and wrong.
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« Reply #3 on: November 15, 2010, 01:16:40 AM »

@kurdt : stupid round eye  ROFLMAO

Just to make perks happy. Been busy as heck lately Smiley
I saw the article a few months back, I read it briefly, honestly I was not surprised.
PH is not china, but it is still asian Smiley. To understand asia, one should read Sun Tzu's Art of War.

In the west, one attempts to gain understanding by compartmentalizing things. So with a clock they examine each gear seperately. This gives the ability to concentrate on each item, and as a result, one can improve components greatly.

In the east, they look at the entire clock as a whole. How each gear fits with one another. How the gears work together as a whole to make the clock go.

Both view points have flaws. In the west they will miss the forest because of the trees. In the east they will often be hesitant to adopt new methods. Contrary to western thinking, it is not because of ignorance, but because of how introduction of a new method will affect the system as a whole. Also sometimes they see a correlation where none exist. But in the long term the "eastern" system is more resilient.

Historically speaking. Asia and Europe have been seperated by the middle east. So niether side knew of each other, but yet ironically trade took place. So in roman writings you hear about chinese silks, indian spices etc. In China there are writings about the cloth that does not burn (asbestos) etc. which came from the roman empire. So as a result both cultures grew up without influence from each other, and both had great civilizations. It is only within "modern" times, as in last 100-200 years has direct communication been possible.

In the art of war, Sun Tzu talks about deception constantly. On the simplest level, the article has it wrong.
And it is, essentially, all about the age-old Chinese concept of face. To have a few foreigners hanging around means a company has prestige, money and the increasingly crucial connections -- real or not -- to businesses abroad.
Wrong. Intrest rates in asia have always been very high. Everyone knows that foriegners have lots of low interest money and are really stupid. They will invest in any rubbish. Hence if you manage to sucker a foriegner to invest in your firm, then you are off to the races Smiley.

You hear about the "face" thing a lot. Westerners particularly americano confuse it with arrogance. Showing off, being boastful, etc. This sort of behaviour is very distastful among asians. Face is ensuring that your wife prepares a proper meal when your guests arrive. Ensuring that your guests are happy. Ensuring that your family maintains good relationships, that one honors their commitments.

I have repeatly said, do not believe everything you see in asia. But then again stupid foriegners (particularly americanos) who have been here 3x a long as me never heed my advice. And repeatly they get screwed over. But sometimes they are too stupid to even realize that they are getting screwed over  ROFLMAO

Henry Sy is a classic example. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Sy A self made billionaire. According to wikipedia he is only worth $1.2 billion. His assets are worth far more then that, but he understates them. He owns/controls, (dummies are very common here) countless companies including banks,real estate development etc. I have never met Mr Sy, but I have seen him on TV. (he rarely appears in public, never saids anything). He wears what looks like a $75 walmart suit, bargain shoes from one of his own stores and just looks like a normal chinese.

A chinese in my town is worth many millions (I am guessing atleast $5+). He again is self made. When he is not making deals, you can find him in his "store". Usually he has a ciggie tacked to the bottom of his lip. He speaks english like his mouth is full of marbles. He will be sitting in the corner of his un-airconditioned store (electricity is expensive). Also do not waste money on things like paint etc. His favorite dress is a dirty white undershirt full of ciggie holes, with his little buddah gut poking out, he wears a set of dirty shorts, and flip flops. And he is still willing to argue with u about a sheet of plywood etc Smiley.

But then again since westerners (particularly americanos) get sucked in by window dressing. They see some guy with a fancy watch, fancy SUV, who claims to have all sorts of big connections. And of course the silly americano soon gives his money to them, and is perplexed why nothing happens Smiley.

There is another factor what the article touches on, but does not go into depth about.
Those who go for such gigs tend to be unemployed actors or models, part-time English teachers
Not all americano/westerner are stupid Smiley. Maybe 1/1000 has an idea what is going on, and in the chaos is actually organization.
And "part-time english teacher" mean person who is a bum, wants to do nothing besides read books all day. But on the other hand very smart.
An actor is also very smart when it comes to human behaviour, to be a good actor one must study human behaviour.
While they are going on the little trips, I am sure thier employers will be questioning them about americanos. They will often ask you the most perplexing questions, and what we might consider "trivial". They might often ask their opinion on matters. For in the art of war, it saids take all view points into consideration. Maybe they have a method of solving the problem which might not have been considered before.

I like to play the stupid foreigner. It can be amusing for a short period of time.
You play along with their little scams. And you delay and delay. That way you can find out what they are up to.
Then you drop little hints that you are not as clueless as you seem. But in a very innocent manner Smiley.
Then when they see that you know they are all flash, but no bang, you see the fear in their eyes Smiley.

For as the great general himself said.

One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.

One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose.

One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle.
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perkiset
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« Reply #4 on: November 15, 2010, 09:50:25 AM »

One who knows where all the battles are but doesn't know fuck all else is a Teapartier.
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« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 11:43:23 AM »

 ROFLMAO  @tea party.

It is embarrassing indeed, but worth self-examination where these feelings seem the most uncomfortable.  I wouldn't simply write this off as racist even though it clearly is.  I think the most uncomfortable part of this, whether we whites see it consciously or not, is that it reveals how shallow we've allowed ourselves to become in search of empty conquests driven by ego in an externally focused world where most every aspect of life produces a robotic reaction of either craving or aversion, good versus bad.  That "ego" guy will start throwing punches if you stare at him long enough Wink
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« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2010, 02:23:57 PM »

To understand asia, one should read Sun Tzu's Art of War.

Can I just watch firefly to learn?
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« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2010, 02:49:00 PM »

I will spell it out. It has fuk all to do with race.
Chinese companies are willing to pay high prices for fair-faced foreigners to join them as fake employees or business partners.
The key word there is "business partners".

To have a few foreigners hanging around means a company has prestige, money and the increasingly crucial connections -- real or not -- to businesses abroad
The key words there are "crucial connections" and "business abroad".

From the book http://www.amazon.com/Bad-Samaritans-Secret-History-Capitalism/dp/1596913991
During the "industrialization of america" (1865-1900) this was possible because of vast amounts of capital invested in USA.
Ironically Majority of this capital came from Britain. As the author states there are 2 types of foreign investment.
Good Type : where the country which is receiving the investment, has tight controls on percentage of stock foriegner can hold, etc. And maintains control.
Bad Type : Economic Hitman type foriegn investment. Foriegn Investors basically rape the country.
In USA between 1865 to 1900 the investment they got was the "good type". Where do you think all the money for railways,factories etc. Came from.
In Japan,Korea and China they are getting "Good Type" from USA.

So from 1865-1900 in USA the where lots of people running around pretending to have fake titles from Europe etc.
"Royalty" which in 19th century Europe translated into people with money and more importantly connections.
It was pretty easy in those days in USA to pretend you where a Duke or some crap, no google, also a lot more countries in Europe Smiley.
"Royalty" had a reputation for lots of money, little brains.
Because the "Royalty" was "White" the racism angle never entered the picture.

Flash forward to the news article. Basically same crap.
I am a chinese. I have a company. I make _______.
I bring along ITTO. I tell everyone ITTO is GW Bush's cousin. Everyone know the Bush family is rich.
Then everyone think the ITTO financing me. That ITTO appears to be clueless half the time. Well that is even better.
I can also blame it on GW Bush's bad genes Smiley. So now I am less likely to get a compeditor since I have a huge stupid white american financier.

Again typical "Art of War" tactic.
You might say well the enemy will find out I do not have a foriegn financier. 100% correct. But how long will that take ? Maybe 1 month, 1 year ?
The important thing is you have gained time and caused your enemy to delay. During that time the situation might change.

craving or aversion, good versus bad.  That "ego" guy will start throwing punches if you stare at him long enough Wink
The moment you cause the enemy to lose his temper, and if you keep yours. Then the odds shift into your favor.

One who knows where all the battles are but doesn't know fuck all else is a Teapartier.
Probably the greatest danger USA faces today.
For starters there is the "western thinking" that the enemy has to be "destoyed".
If I can use 19 men with box cutters to keep 1 million men occupied and trillions of dollars spent. I have won the battle.
The key is to get the enemy to "react" to you.
China is repeatedly been doing this. The devaluation of US debt. The rare earths embargo. etc.
Things which cost them little. Because USA reacts, then they tie them up Smiley

How can you play their game and win ? Smiley
Lots of little tricks you can do Smiley.
Get lots of independent sources of information. Talk to all sorts of people. From that you can piece together things.
Observe. Often it is not what people say, but what they do not say.
Find out who the "puppets" are and who the "puppet masters" are.

So you find out Mr XXX is a puppet master.
If Mr XXX is having a low key party (This is common in PH), and you are invited.
You have to pay your complements to him when you arrive, and when you leave, you should ask "permission" to leave.
Often he will summon you and ask what is your business etc. And you might have 5-10 minutes of polite chit chat.
This will be observed by everyone.
When questioned by others what did you and Mr XXX talk about. Act all innocent. Say he is very nice, you just talk about his grand daughter who is  studying in america.
They might ask. You know who Mr XXX is ? Act all innocent again. Why he seems to be a very nice friendly man.
(pretend innocents if someone tells you the rumor about how Mr XXX got someone who betrayed him to dig a hole, and then how he himself personally gunned the traitor down)
People will then assume that you and Mr XXX where discussing important business. The more you deny, the greater the chance of belief.
Then if you do business, people will assume Mr XXX is a friend of you, and leave you alone Smiley.

Later Mr XXX will require "help". You might be summoned. (One of his key people will come and say Mr XXX is having a party ....)
Usually he requires information, or your opinion on something. It is something he can not directly do himself for what ever reason.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2010, 05:07:01 PM »

I can't help but think that if nop is right, then there's a bright future for those who spend their time actually building things and providing needed services as opposed to finessing some massive societal shell game  Wink  Those tend to be transitory and I believe history favors the less exciting realities of supply & demand over such gimmicky shenanigans.  Connecting the dots I see a logic problem as well.  How does a Chinese business person maintain and/or improve their "face value" with such obviously cheesy and totally temporary false image games?  I'd think your face would begin to collect food after awhile, though I've never been to China so I only "know" what I read here in western land.

Dubbya is Lord,
itto
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« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2010, 05:33:43 PM »

...but worth self-examination where these feelings seem the most uncomfortable. 

Who has time for silly stuff like self-examination?

Wink



Quote
I wouldn't simply write this off as racist even though it clearly is. 

I don't think it qualifies for racist.  Isn't 'racist' always a negative term?  And doesn't
'racist' usually imply some sort of dislike for a certain race?


When I first came to PH, I didn't see any westerners for a long time.  When I met the
first one, I was thrilled. 

To see a familar looking face,
to have the chance to converse in my language,
to talk of things back home,
to "relate" to the cultural differences,

THAT really made me feel good.

I think that is all they are doing, but for marketing purposes.  So what?  Smart!

They are just making their customers feel at home.  And for that they are racists?

I don't think so.


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« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2010, 07:35:58 PM »

Bomps always gives an alternative view Smiley
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2010, 08:33:24 PM »

Quote
I wouldn't simply write this off as racist even though it clearly is. 

I don't think it qualifies for racist.  Isn't 'racist' always a negative term?  And doesn't
'racist' usually imply some sort of dislike for a certain race?

Good points Boompa.  I threw it out there as a given but I see definite differences between racist behavior and this.  This seems more in line with disrespectful and degrading behavior like when women are turned into sex objects to cause beer drinking bozos to choose beverage A over B.  Or perhaps in Hollywood when blacks were pigeon-holed into portraying stupid subservient slave-like people to please the appetite of the privileged white moviegoers.  It's not necessarily racist to disrespectfully use people of a specific race for the sole purpose of profit.  But it's at least as distasteful as leveraging comedic cultural stereotypes that perpetuate a minimizing image of a large group of people for the financial gain of a few 
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« Reply #12 on: November 16, 2010, 11:27:18 PM »

I know some guys that are making bank out of this.
They are like actors playing a part more than anything.
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