next »

[nutballs]

salesforce itself is Customer Management System or CRM. Or at least thats what it WAS. I too am a bit perplexed by what the hell it is now.

[isthisthingon]

All I see is a bunch of stupid flash presentations that claim magically my sales increase without increasing cost.

That's standard user stuff.  Check out Code the Cloud: http://developer.force.com/gettingstarteddevelopers.  The standard user sees this as an online CRM that costs less than other traditional solutions such as SAP's CRM, Sage Software's CRM, Oracle's CRM, Microsoft CRM, etc. etc.  It's a user-based licensing approach to handle client lists, marketing campaigns, and all aspects of managing customer interactions and data.

Therefore integrations with ERP, WMS, and custom applications comprise the bulk of the work that's needed out there.  I just wrote a web to case class/trigger/interface that allows a company's customers to log issues (incident tracker) with anything the company may sell.  Salesforce workflows kick in (if desired) to automate everything from task lists to email or native approval process communications.

It was a programmable CRM that evolved into something rather large in scope and potential.  If you think about it like a cloud-based "Prospect - Contact Tracking and Time Management Software," you would be about 20 years off but it's a good start.  IMO Salesforce simply got a jump on others in the programmable, multi-tenet cloud world by pure luck.  Microsoft is on red-alert dumping massive money into building cloud-based data centers around the world to get into the game.  They're seriously late on this one (like um the 640K RAM barrier or the potential of the Internet itself?)

This is a nice article on Sites: http://www.developerforce.com/media/ADNNewsletterArchive/081030OctForceNL/force_developer_news_oct.html 

Hope that was under 200 words nop 

[perkiset]

Don't take nop personally, he just gets right to it. I think his question is spot on, however, and you're the right guy to answer it because there is a bilgeload of marketing hooie and nop, particularly, is not one to waste time on smoke & mirrors. You're the right guy to answer it because you're a coder that gets it (I can personally vouch) and you don't make money on them per se and not on us either for sharing the mechanics.

I like that you're evangelizing because a meandering laissez faire endorsement wouldn't even garner the time of day here. Your passion makes for an interesting read and interest in the notion.

[isthisthingon]

Like lets say I set up an online pharmacy.
Will sales force handling my billing ? CC transactions etc ?
And then magically affiliates will sign up and start promoting my viagra ?

Perhaps I was unclear earlier nop.  The merchant aspect is for people who buy your custom AppExchange product not for anything you choose to sell while they host your custom pharmacy.  For that you may be better off hosting yourself if you want nothing else from SF.  However, if you wanted to track existing customers and market to new ones, Salesforce would be a tool to help you do that and track your business (dashboards and blah blah).

Same goes for the marketing I mentioned earlier.  It applies to custom software you write for the AppExchange, not for whatever content you choose to post on your sites.  If you wanted to write and sell PharmaMax, for example, your new Force.com offering for small businesses that wanted to sell meds online then yes, Force would have you SEOd to the gills and happily transact the payment(s) for buying your Apex product - not the blue pills.  It's just a nice way to get good ideas and bring them completely to market without any cash up front.

and you don't make money on them per se and not on us either for sharing the mechanics.

Honestly I feel a little strange about this since if I read my own words I'd probably suspect otherwise.  I'll start a non-salesforce helper discussion when I jump into another open-source friendly cloud. 

isthisthingon - open cloud evangelist 

[isthisthingon]

Based on what some of you guys here can do, I think it's more a question of "who needs who?"

Salesforce would be far luckier to have contributions from some of the talent here, no question.  If they stop acting like an open cloud I'll be gone in a heartbeat.  But I am seriously supportive of us, the engineers, who actually do the stuff everybody wants and needs.  Believe it or not that's my come from.

Cheers,
Adam

[nop_90]

Sorry I sounded a little harsh 
I have been listening to this book on audio
Asshole: How I Got Rich & Happy by Not Giving a Damn About Anyone & How You Can, Too (Hardcover)
http://www.amazon.com/Asshole-Happy-Giving-About-Anyone/dp/0767927265

It is kindof of a spoof on all these other self help books
Sad part is after I took the quiz at the start of the book I already found out I am an asshole, so I do not need to read the book
Infact i could probably give the author a few pointers

The part that threw was ur earlier statement

The AppExchange does your marketing for you.  You simply come up with the basics like product description, keywords, logo, etc., and leave the SEO rat race for those battling it out on Google    Come up with a good idea (and there's a world of chargeable, custom development needs at SF) and bring it to life with nothing but the time you choose to devote to it.  It's also significantly faster to develop in than Java and .NET (http://blog.sforce.com/sforce/2009/05/research-report-finds-forcecom-app-dev-almost-5-times-faster-than-java-or-net.html). 

I had this strange idea in my head that somehow it was some sort of marketing platform

Also I saw the terms CRM (ok i will be honest I did not know what CRM mean). But then I got so distracted by all the other stuff I honestly had no idea what the heck the software did

To make money you basically make "plugins" or "apps" that you run on the saleforce system and u sell them
Not my cup of tea but I can see a lot of potential for this.
salesforce benifits because they do not have to worry about "niche" markets, and they can concentrate on the core product.
developer if he is smart and not lazy ......

I am not sure if it has stuff like word processing.
But the cost for a simple package for small buisness lets say is $9 per month per user.
Make software using it the manages lets say a small doctor's office.
It keeps track of prescriptions, medical records etc.
I know conventional software that does this is not cheap.
But with this software since it basically runs in a web-browser you no longer need help desk support etc.
(As long as the machine can run the web browser u cool).
The approach each doctor office, tell them that u will fit them out with ur magic software.
If the puter fucks up, just tell them to stuff this CD in the driver and reboot.
So ur helpdesk drops to zero almost. (most helpdesk is because users fuk up thier puter installing stupid shit).
Then turn arround and sell this software to each doctor office for like $150 a month + 20 a user

Then again u would have to talk to stupid users and be nice to them and annoying crap like that.
I can see tons of shit like that being done
Shit small travel agencies.
Small hotel chains.

Annoying part is that again u have to talk to these people
Maybe I could program some sort of politeness bot that could contact people sell them crap and listen to thier whiney problems, and how come thier puter does not work because they where retarded, and installed a fuking virus in it.

[nop_90]

Another idea
I have no use for them 10+ years ago i could have benifited from this system

Basically first major application I made was what u would call a CRM that managed newspaper circulation for distrubutors.
It took me 3 months to make. I made it in 3 months using mysql, python and wxpython for gui.
This is very limited market.
As in each city might have only 10 distributor but they have like 100-500 paper boy under them.
They are smart buisness men (you have to be to survive in this buisness), but techy wise kind of stupid.
You show them a way to save $$$$ (as in save time, time is money) they will buy ur product.
Anyway i was just out of school. I charged them $1K each for making the program. And then $100 a month for each distributor.
Biggest problem i faced was that i could not expand out of the city I was in.
Mainly because to setup the program on each computer required an extreme custom install.
So as a result I could not expand out of the city I was in.
Also max budget the user could afford was like $200-300 a month.

So find a niche industry like that.
Then go hang out with the distributor for like 1 week to see what his job entails.
Hardest part is finding out the "requirements".

Make the program.
Let maybe 5 of the distributor try program at a very reduced rate.
Then listen to thier complaints and fix them.
Then turn arround and market it to the rest of the distributors in the country.
Again since the program is hosted 100% online ur user support costs are much less
(biggest problem i had was when user upgraded puter and u had to reinstall mysql etc).
So in canada there is like 50 major cities. that is 500 potential customer.
Also once a few of the distributor start using proggie, others will hear about it and want to use also.
After u make proggie just sit on ur ass and do fuk all

There has to be tons of niche industry like that out there.
For 500 customers not really worth sales force time (they probably can only afford to pay like $300 a month tops).

[nutballs]

actually Nop, you are right in a respect that it is a marketing platform.

It is a platform to facilitate communication with, management of, and marketing to, your customers. (at least that is what I understood it to be).

Thats actually the reason I am interested in it.
My business is B2B Marketing, primarily in the technology industry. Many of my clients, and sub clients (thats the best name for them, its complicated...) use Salesforce already, and get annoyed when one of the other participants does not. So my interest is mainly geared towards making us more valuable to our clients. I also of course want to make us the only choice... lol

[isthisthingon]

But the cost for a simple package for small buisness lets say is $9 per month per user.

This is actually the entry level cost for Salesforce, for up to 5 users. 

$9 Group Edition
$65 Professional Edition
$125 Enterprise Edition (Most commonly used)
$250 Unlimited

Visualforce is included with this basic edition so someone could write and sell an app that only requires businesses to pony up for 9 bucks per user per month + whatever you chose to charge them for yours.

An average small AppExchange app lists for $20 per month and commonly lists at $199 for larger ones (Survey Gizmo and Angel.com - IVR, for example).  SF has around 47K companies using their product and millions of users.  A good app, therefore, does have the potential to bring the lone coder a decent monthly amount.

[nutballs]

though, the advantage is, that these users of salesforce are captives by their own habits and fears of change.
Once they start using something they like, or rely on, they will virtually NEVER stop using it.
$20 a month from 100 users for the next 5 years, is probably not too bad for a smaller app, depending of course on your intitial time investment.

[perkiset]

Golden, fur lined handcuffs. Love that model.

 

[nop_90]

though, the advantage is, that these users of salesforce are captives by their own habits and fears of change.
Once they start using something they like, or rely on, they will virtually NEVER stop using it.
$20 a month from 100 users for the next 5 years, is probably not too bad for a smaller app, depending of course on your intitial time investment.

For the example of the proggie i made for the newspaper distributors it was a win win for both sides.
In that buisness u have to be tough (literally) and smart. Big money but the profit margin is low, they only make like $0.02 per paper. But when u have 15K papers per day ..... On the other hand if u are stupid u can lose ur buisness in a month.

So first i asked them what they needed. As series of question and answers.
Then i made a mockup, nothing fancy just showing how it would function. I then asked them what other requirements they needed.
I then made the proggie in a month.

For them it was simple economics. Under my system they could generate bills in 2 hours what would normally take them 2 days manually. Time is money.
Again time is money. So if someone else came on the scene they would 1) Have to under cut my price substantially. 2) They have to offer something way better then me. Because my proggie did what I said it would, why would they risk thier buisness for a subsistute that might now work to save like $50 a month.

NB make a pimp of matic proggie.
Then go look for the pimp.
Yo man, u spend too much time on the street. How do u know that the best corner for your Hoe to be on ?
Shit man ur hoes could be makin u much more blink.
Look u can control pimp o matic with ur cell phone.
I think that lyin hoe stealin ur bling, she scammin u man, with pimp o matic u know if that lyin bitch takin ur bling

[serialnoob]

Based on what some of you guys here can do, I think it's more a question of "who needs who?"

Salesforce would be far luckier to have contributions from some of the talent here, no question.  If they stop acting like an open cloud I'll be gone in a heartbeat.  But I am seriously supportive of us, the engineers, who actually do the stuff everybody wants and needs.  Believe it or not that's my come from.

Cheers,
Adam

Undoubtedly, however, I still cannot figure out where "you are going", except suggesting users here that they should subscribe to, or "prescribe" SF to their clients.

Don't get me wrong, I first looked into SF 2 or 3 years ago when the SAAS buzz started, and I feel there is a logic that makes it viable for medium to large orgs, where control prevails over sofistication, just like IBM invaded the PC market, otherwise, clearly "PCs" would have been "MACs".

I don't personaly know people here but I read most of what they write here and elsewhere, and I try to implement, and frankly
I just cannot see how SF can fit, outside a purely technical discussion, as most users here create code they use, not sell. I might be wrong.

So if need be, can you just tell us how you think SF really can help Bompa's pharmacy?

[isthisthingon]

I don't personaly know people here but I read most of what they write here and elsewhere, and I try to implement, and frankly
I just cannot see how SF can fit, outside a purely technical discussion, as most users here create code they use, not sell. I might be wrong.

I might be an anomaly here but I do in fact write software for personal use, for contributing to others for their use, and also for an income.  I have no personal or ethical problem developing software that people want and selling it at a reasonable price.  In fact, I truly believe this is the essence of open-source share cropping.  Those who contribute and build what's needed gain fair compensation for their work, rather than giving everything to the closed-source predatory licensing folks.

So if need be, can you just tell us how you think SF really can help Bompa's pharmacy?

I believe this is what you're referring to:

Like lets say I set up an online pharmacy.
Will sales force handling my billing ? CC transactions etc ?
And then magically affiliates will sign up and start promoting my viagra ?

Perhaps I was unclear earlier nop.  The merchant aspect is for people who buy your custom AppExchange product not for anything you choose to sell while they host your custom pharmacy.  For that you may be better off hosting yourself if you want nothing else from SF.  However, if you wanted to track existing customers and market to new ones, Salesforce would be a tool to help you do that and track your business (dashboards and blah blah).

Same goes for the marketing I mentioned earlier.  It applies to custom software you write for the AppExchange, not for whatever content you choose to post on your sites.  If you wanted to write and sell PharmaMax, for example, your new Force.com offering for small businesses that wanted to sell meds online then yes, Force would have you SEOd to the gills and happily transact the payment(s) for buying your Apex product - not the blue pills.  It's just a nice way to get good ideas and bring them completely to market without any cash up front.

From the standpoint of Bompa's pharmacy (nop_90), assuming it's already in existence you really would only consider this as perhaps a composite app where features you may desire in Salesforce are mashed-up with, or generally combined with, features in your online pharmacy.  If this pharmacy was in it's inception and you wanted Force.com Sites to host it for you then it's an entirely different story.

Here's a sample of the built in objects (tables) used at Salesforce that could be leveraged in an app such as OnlinePharmacy93.com:

Account, Approval, Asset, Attachment, Campaign, Case, Contact, Contract, Document, EmailMessage, EmailTemplate, Event, Group, Idea, Lead, Note, Opportunity, Organization, Partner, Product, Solution, Task and User.

One key idea as pointed out by others such as Nutballs and Perkiset, is that people are already there in this environment and want it to be improved for them.  But the development of software for the sole purpose of you, the developer, making money selling blue pills is something probably better to do on your own.

From my earlier post:

Same goes for the marketing I mentioned earlier.  It applies to custom software you write for the AppExchange, not for whatever content you choose to post on your sites.  If you wanted to write and sell PharmaMax, for example, your new Force.com offering for small businesses that wanted to sell meds online then yes, Force would have you SEOd to the gills and happily transact the payment(s) for buying your Apex product - not the blue pills.  It's just a nice way to get good ideas and bring them completely to market without any cash up front.

Hope that clarifies things serialnoob.

[nutballs]

actually i think most of us here do it for both internal and external profit.

noob. SF is not something you would code on for your own use like isthis said. It is platform to code on that will either expand your capabilities with your clients that already use SF, add capabilites for clients that don't but should and might now use SF, and/or to provide businesses you have no relationship with a tool(s) that improve their capabilities and they are willing to pay for it.

but to do your own business, like a pill site, you would actually be a USER of SF, not a coder, because you would actually use SF to market to your existing customers which is what SF is for, or at the very least management of your marketing plans. The pill site would be something you would build or buy elsewhere. (though it may integrate with SF)