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Author Topic: Yet another spam-a-lama-ding-dong!  (Read 5008 times)
piratescurvy
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« on: May 02, 2007, 04:11:12 PM »

hey all, I've been a lurker/wanker on syndk8 for a few months with the occasional post.  Just really got into PHP last month and I'm learning quick.  I didn't see a forum section for Ruby, but I heard it is awesome for screen scraping. Smiley  So yeah...I'm basically a poor young guy Violin looking to increase my technical ability and thus net worth.
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« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2007, 06:09:52 PM »

When i learned python, ruby was some peculiar language from japan, which had no english docs Smiley.
Once i learned python there is little motivation to switch to ruby.

Ruby have many intresting feature which python/perl lack (i am not expert).
Ruby mechanize for webclient stuff look pretty cool.

anyway share you adventures with ruby
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piratescurvy
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« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2007, 06:16:27 PM »

I know absolutely no ruby. but a friend of mine on another forum showed me how it avoided all the mundane tasks of php, no need to define variables, get parameters, or read results from arrays. and it's really quite simple to learn. here is a cool movie of a guy making a blogging platform in less than 15 min with time left over to test it http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/r...with_sound.mov   Nerd

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perkiset
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« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2007, 08:57:31 PM »

Hey PScurvy...

That link doesn't go... it looks a little strange - did you munge it for the board here? It's OK, we'll let it fly - I'd like to see that. I also know zip-diddly-squat about Ruby but want to learn enough to comment intelligently.

Thanks, and welcome to the cache
/p
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piratescurvy
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« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2007, 09:07:12 PM »

oops, accidentally copied the clipped link.  here is the good one http://media.rubyonrails.org/video/rails_take2_with_sound.mov
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perkiset
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« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2007, 11:20:58 PM »

Wow.

That looked like bad Cold Fusion blended with AppleScript in an HTML wrapper. I can see why newer programmers or particularly MS Access type users would find that really dynamite - it does a lot of things that they do not need to know how or why. They can accomplish a lot without knowing a great deal.

Personally I like a more normalized language because I like to do my thinking myself... I don't care for languages with lots of keywords and declarations - I just can't remember them all. I don't care for frameworks that make so many assumptions about what I'm up to either. It looks as though if you code within their workflow then it will assume correctly - but I wonder how well it would do with someone that is not as familiar with the "correct workflow."

Additionally, I think it's funny how people say, "You don't need variables or structures like a normal programming language" yet there's for loops (they just look a little different) and references are like constant variables... so I'm not sure where the advantage is there.

Seems like if you are a Ruby programmer then Rails would be cool... but I'm wondering what kind of huge pull Ruby has over PHP, PERL, C(et al) and the like... love to have someone swat me down on this but I found the structure rather confusing and off-putting. Outside of the "It's so damn fast you've just got to use it" stor of rhetoric, what is the real advantage of Ruby over the other currently in-favor languages?

Thanks thought PScurve for the intro - I've been needing something like that.

/p
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KaptainKrayola
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« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2007, 07:52:47 AM »

Nice video.  If The Kaptain were to suggest a language to start with as far as one that does alot for you it would be ColdFusion.  Not just because he's good at it but it does allow you to use a whole host of built in functions to do things  database interaction, form generation, etc.  It has built in form generation, data grids, and a ton of other controls to automate lots of the creation of the app.  At the same time, and RoR may do this as well we don't know, ColdFusion gives you the ability to do the same thing WITHOUT having to use it's built in controls and automation.  So, if you grow in you understanding of programming and want to do things outside the limitations of the controls, you can. 

The syntax is nice too because it's tag based so it blends with HTML very nicely.  The RoR syntax didn't impress me so much. 

All of that said, if you get into Ruby and RoR please keep us posted with some of your apps and your progress.  The Kaptain is interested to see what it can do but doesn't have enough interest to learn the language and try for himself.  At the same time if you pick up ColdFusion feel free to bug the Kaptain if you need any help.

P.s. Welcome to the Cache!

Pies all around!
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sixover5
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« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2007, 10:04:50 AM »

There were a few things that made me switch from PHP to Ruby/RoR.  One of the first things is that it just feels better when you code it.  I have done Java, which I like the OOP nature of, but everything just seems harder in Java.  However with Ruby tasks have the ease of PHP, however the OOP nature of everything is really refreshing. 

Then rails makes a lot of the hard tasks much simpler.  If you have iTunes you can download a lot of podcasts/screencasts for free about ruby/ruby on rails.  They are excellent at showing how to use various features of RoR. 

That all being said, I am still getting into Ruby so if you see me in a week or two all about php then you know what happened... Wink
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« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2007, 10:59:47 AM »

We don't have a good Rubyster here... any input will be greatly appreciated.

I'm particularly intrigued by your conversion from PHP to Ruby and then rails...

/p
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« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2007, 11:19:29 AM »

To me php is ideal for small projects, but whenever I try to bring in large amounts of architecture, or classes for various tasks from external programmers it just feels like its going against the flow.  A few things that brought me towards ruby is that PHP inherently has a lack of development tools such as debugging and testing support.  Of course there are debuggers and php unit testing classes available, but it is more of an after the fact thing than something streamlined into the framework.  The final straw that broke the camels back.. if only I switched from Perl... was that I was starting to learn symfony (a RoR like implementation on php) 

I guess the most important thing really boils down to the community.  I love the RoR community, they are very focused on things such as agile development, and thinking outside the box.  A lot of the developers don't seem to just accept structures that were handed to them.  To me the community of a programming language/environment is really important because I am not working in a corporation where my peers are paid by the same person as I am being paid by.  Or better yet, my peers are being paid by my corporation so they are being paid just to help me/us. 

Plus anything you make in ruby will be on the front page of digg for sure!  ROFLMAO
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perkiset
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« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2007, 11:23:50 AM »

Plus anything you make in ruby will be on the front page of digg for sure!  ROFLMAO

Hmmmmm  Mobster
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m0nkeymafia
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« Reply #11 on: May 16, 2007, 12:52:13 AM »

Perk im with  you mate
I dont really like all these new fangled "does it all for you" langauges
I would MUCH rather spend an extra minute doing something and know it was done how I wanted it and so forth.

But like you I have no RoR experience so can only comment on what Ive seen knocking about the net
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perkiset
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« Reply #12 on: May 16, 2007, 10:11:08 AM »

I actually see it as a benefit to handling my own garbage collection. I prefer knowing *exactly* what's going on to all the "I've got it handled for you" stuff. Although I've moved off that a bit with PHP and Javascript... but I still pretty much control everything I can.

There was a programmer that worked with me quite a great many years ago that said "Assembly is easy. Excel - now THAT's hard." His point was simply that a language with a total of say 200 TOTAL available commands is a lot easier to understand than some of the massively "feature rich" thangs of today.

You and I are prolly in the minority though...

/p
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m0nkeymafia
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« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2007, 10:13:02 AM »

Were old skool my friend
Thing is, its good being the minority
Within 10 years languages will have evolved so that anyone who knows a bit of maths can do it.
And there will be us lot left with a few cobwebs on knowing actually how it all works
We will be kings muahahahaha
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perkiset
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« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2007, 10:36:42 AM »

Were old skool my friend

DBDog has a plate of core memory on his wall to remember where he come from. It's about 2.5 feet x 18 inches and 4whoppingK of gut-wrenching, heart stopping random access memory pal... you can actually see the donuts and wires with the *naked eye*. It's very cool.

Wow am I an easily amused old fuck.  ROFLMAO

/p
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