The Cache: Technology Expert's Forum

Level 1 Cache: General Discussion => All Things Microsoft => Topic started by: Indica on April 03, 2008, 05:55:52 AM



Title: commercial win32 software development
Post by: Indica on April 03, 2008, 05:55:52 AM
good afternoon (wind0ze) eggheads!

i'm curious what your opinions are on what the best language for writing commercial software is in terms of development & more importantly ease of deployment. the .NET framework scares me in that in order for customers to run my software they'd need the framework. non geeks who don't know shit about computers might have a tough time with that one. an installer which checks for the proper framework and installs it with minimal interaction would make things easier, i'll have to look into that.

i've been considering both c++ (would prefer not to go this route as it'll take 50x as long to develop compared to .NET) and delphi

thoughts?


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: vsloathe on April 03, 2008, 05:57:31 AM
There's a redistributable installer iirc. People who say "you have to install the .NET framework first!!111" are just lazy. Or they don't want a bloated installer. Gauge your audience's technical savvy, and then do what makes the most sense in that regard.


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: Indica on April 03, 2008, 06:04:57 AM
Gauge your audience's technical savvy, and then do what makes the most sense in that regard.

they're at the bottom of the barrel in terms of savvy, installation needs to be as simple and painless as possible.

i don't mind a bloated installer, if that's what it is going to take to have an all-in-one installer, so be it. as long as it's simple enough for a tard to install  :roflmao:


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: dink on April 03, 2008, 12:28:42 PM
 :dito:

http ++ ajax == browser based ap w/o need for installer.

All of your backdoor installs pretty neat aps are safe from....


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: Indica on April 03, 2008, 12:52:38 PM
the software is for the desktop not web-based, so an installer is a must.


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: Indica on April 03, 2008, 04:45:23 PM
yeah win32, and the software is a broad range of things like mp3 players, games, etc. all sorts of utility/entertainment-type software.


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: nop_90 on April 03, 2008, 06:32:33 PM
use a cross platform gui,
fltk,qt,wxwidgets etc
that way u do not have to worry about that stupid shit


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: Indica on April 03, 2008, 08:19:40 PM
 ???

i don't want it to be cross platform, only windows. i think you guys are looking too deep into this.


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: nop_90 on April 03, 2008, 09:44:53 PM
be pretty silly not to do cross platform
go search for the various tool kits to see what i mean.
QT which is the best is a cross platform gui, but pricey
it is a thin layer to various OS API

so u just take code and compile for what ever platform, and u have the speed of C++
it will compile for linux,windoze,mac and some embedded devices.

there are also binding for the above for perl,python etc.
Fltk is the fastest, but lacks features.

Also the native windoze api sucks shit.


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: Indica on April 04, 2008, 06:08:34 AM
again it will only be windows for various reasons. linux is not my target market, os x isn't either (yet). windows-only  :applause:

back on topic  ;D maybe i chose the wrong place to ask a windows question  :roflmao:


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: nop_90 on April 04, 2008, 03:24:28 PM
It all really depends on what you are doing.
As a rule of thumb use the gnu compiler suite.
Gcc/G++ etc.
For starters it is free and ontop of it you write your C/C++ code properly it is just a matter of getting the appropriate compiler for what ever platform you are using and recompiling.

Ussually a scripting language which can be compiled and is extentable in C/C++ (or can load dlls is best best).
Make the parts which do not need speed in the scripting language.
Parts that need speed in C/C++.

Good scripting languages which fit the bill are perl,python,ruby and lua (there are probably others).
Each has its advantages and disadvantages.
Python has interfaces to all of the above GUI toolkits i mention above.

So if u are making a MP3 player.
Make the gui part all in lets say python.
encoding/decoding part in C/C++ (compiled as a dll/so)
and it is inheritently cross platform.
Speed of the gui does not matter (relatively speaking).
If it takes 5ms to respond when user clicks button as opposed to 3ms who cares.
Decoding the mp3 speed does matter so C/C++

So as rule of thumb, you prototype in scripting language.
Once it is running parts where speed matters you make C/C++.

Lets say someone wants version on MacOS.
If you did ur above work proper, in a few hours u can make a MacOS version.

Anyway that is my 2 cents.










Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: thedarkness on April 04, 2008, 11:46:08 PM
i'm curious what your opinions are on what the best language for writing commercial software is in terms of development & more importantly ease of deployment. the .NET framework scares me in that in order for customers to run my software they'd need the framework. non geeks who don't know shit about computers might have a tough time with that one. an installer which checks for the proper framework and installs it with minimal interaction would make things easier, i'll have to look into that.

i've been considering both c++ (would prefer not to go this route as it'll take 50x as long to develop compared to .NET) and delphi

thoughts?

I write .NET programs in managed C++ all the time. C# is not far away from C++ and is a CLR language along with C#, VB, J#, and managed C++. Look at Visual C++ Express and Visual C# Express. Smart installer is good, yes. Other options for C++ are QT (need a license) and GTK. Eclipse, DEV++ (something like that, bloodshed's IDE), there are others, Mono is an option......

I know almost nothing about Delphi, ask anyone  :roflmao:

Cheers,
td


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: Indica on April 05, 2008, 07:45:51 AM
yesterday i got delphi 2007 (try before buy!  ;D) and it seems pretty good, i'll have to brush up on my pascal.

@td: how large do the smart installers end up being? do they download the framework from the net if it isn't found on the computer? an installer like that could be good to cut down on size (i would offer both types of installers though). granted most people these days have broadband, size may not be an issue.

i'll look into smart installers sometime soon


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: perkiset on April 05, 2008, 10:12:22 AM
Delphi is the underdog, but it is my favorite IDE and language to this day. I probably can't help much anymore (Jammaster is probably more on the dot than I am today) but I will if I can.

Good luck - that's a great choice if you choose it.


Title: Re: commercial win32 software development
Post by: nop_90 on April 05, 2008, 02:47:43 PM
90% of successful software is made with C/C++ as a base, with some sort of scripting language internally to configure etc.
Prime examples are emacs and and autocad.