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Author Topic: US Citizen between 18 and 42?  (Read 2175 times)
rcjordan
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« on: July 20, 2010, 11:37:19 AM »

Rep. Charles Rangel introduces HR.5741, universally drafting 18-42-year-olds, male and female, for military or other purposes.

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-5741
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KaptainKrayola
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« Reply #1 on: July 20, 2010, 12:19:08 PM »

let's hope not - i'm fucking TERRIBLE at taking orders.
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« Reply #2 on: July 20, 2010, 12:56:33 PM »

A fitting end to a lousy day. I can easily get behind the notion of National Service, but uniformed service under the orders of the kind of fuck heads we've had recently is not going to happen. Build Roads? Check. Feed People? Check. Protect our borders and ports? Check. Travel to exotic lands, meet new, interesting people ... And kill them? I think not.
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rcjordan
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« Reply #3 on: July 20, 2010, 01:03:08 PM »

>and kill them

You could fanboi them to death, hhh.



>lousy

My draft lottery number was in the mid-20s whilst in college during the Viet Nam era.  It definitely knocked the edge off an otherwise great time.
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« Reply #4 on: July 20, 2010, 01:07:20 PM »

No doubt. The expiration os my draft card was a pretty great day.

Glad you made it through OK, RC. I was just outside the draft, to my fathers great relief. Missed it by a couple years.

I understand my dads angst quite well ATM. 
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rcjordan
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« Reply #5 on: July 20, 2010, 01:30:22 PM »

>got through

Turns out, there's a story....

A truly scary (for RC) AIM bedtime story as told to a friend:

FRIEND: Q. What's the difference between the Vietnam War and the Iraq War?

RC: sand instead of jungles

FRIEND: A. George W. Bush had a plan to get out of the Vietnam War.

FRIEND: hehehe

RC: hhh

RC: i didn't. damn i was lucky. probably screwed up my chances of being President, though.

FRIEND: didn't go or?

FRIEND: you too young surely?

RC: didn't go.

RC: no, i graduated from college in 72 --height of the war

FRIEND: I can tell you one thing with 169% certainty, neither would I have gone

RC: body bags coming home by the plane load

RC: but i didn't have a plan.

RC: had always thought the war would end

RC: we had a lottery system for the draft.

FRIEND: wow!

RC: it was selected by the month/day of the year.

RC: my lottery number came up only #26 --they went through number 120 or so that year.

RC: in short, i was fucked.

FRIEND: then.....

RC: I haven't told you this story? It's a GREAT story ...but unbelievable.

FRIEND: I am on the edge of my seat, I love this stuff

RC: we graduate in early May over here

RC: as a footnote, I was married at the time to my first wife

RC: anyway, I got my "Notice to Report" in Feb or March

RC: that meant I was definitely in the "cattle call"

RC: the first step was to get a physical exam.

RC: by the Selective Service Bureau (the draft)

RC: every word i'm telling you is the truth, always is, but I want to assure you before I go on.

RC: anyway, my college was some distance from home

RC: the draft board is "local" --based on your home address. So they set your physical to be made in their jurisdiction.

RC: My physical was slated to be in Norfolk VA --HOME OF THE MID-ATLANTIC FLEET. One of the largest military cities (actually a ring of military cities) in the country.

RC: Not good.

RC: Very, very bad in fact. Their doctors were agressive ...known to take men with impairments that would easily get one off in other jurisdictions.

FRIEND: ouch

RC: Yeah.

RC: But, I couldn't leave classes yet, not until May.

RC: I should inject here that some jurisdictions and some members of the local draft boards were -I hate to use the word- liberal on their views of Viet Nam by now.

RC: Anyway, I went to the draft board in Lexington Virginia where my college was.

RC: Lexington was VERY small at the time, probably only 5000 residents.

RC: the whole county probably had only 15,000 residents.

FRIEND: big civil war town?

RC: uhhh, General Lee is buried there.

FRIEND: ah

RC: Search on "Shrine of The South"

RC: Lee Chapel is on my college campus

RC: anyway, there are two colleges in Lexington. One, Washington & Lee, where I went.

RC: and the other is the huge, formidable.....

RC: VMI --Virginia Military Instute

RC: ouch again, from the looks of it, i'm expecting to be in a VERY conservative draft board.

RC: i mean, this is the mountains of the south (redneck beyond belief) and the home of military legends like Stonewall Jackson and R.E. Lee, to name a few.

RC: Follow so far?

FRIEND: yeah!

RC: OK. I go to the draft board office in the basement of the small-ish US Post Office

RC: usually, the post office is crowded --but it was mid-afternoon and I now feel like it was eerily empty upstairs --but that may be a

RC: misrecollection.

RC: anyway, when i did go downstairs I *KNOW* that the draft board was empty ---perhaps not unusual, but it did feel odd at the time, given the

RC: number of students in town and draft-age men around the county.

RC: The office only had one person in it ...a VERY elderly lady.

RC: Very small, petite.

RC: I had never seen the woman before, nor did she indicate that she had ever seen me.

RC: I asked for some help.

RC: "Is there any way I can get my physical postponed or get a more convenient date?"

RC: Now the next bit is fuzzy, I'm sure we must have chatted at least a minute or two --but no more than that.

RC: Her name was Mrs. Brown

RC: Then she pops the question that changed and may have saved my life.....

RC: "You look like a nice boy. Do you really want to go to Viet Nam?"

FRIEND: for one second I thought you were going to say she said "fancy a fuck?"

FRIEND: Smiley

RC: hhh. reading this, I was thinking that too, evil twin.

RC: but not at the time.

RC: I am stunned, is this some sort of trick? But I blurted out a shocked, emphatic "NO MA'AM!"

RC: Remember, there is not a soul around. To this day, I think if someone else had been there she would have just given me some paperwork.

RC: And I'd have gone to Viet Nam.

RC: So, she looks at me and says....

RC: Well, do you mind if I help you to try and get out of going?

RC: THIS IS THE WOMAN AT THE DAMN DRAFT BOARD ASKING ME THIS!

RC: Being ever-so-sharp, I once again blurt out "NO MA'AM!"

FRIEND: and then she said "fancy a fuck?"

RC: no, evil twin

RC: though I would have

FRIEND: lol

RC: trust me, you would have too

RC: those were raw times.

FRIEND: hehehehehehehe

RC: the country had been on the brink of student revolution.

RC: search on "Kent State"

RC: students were shot by the National Guard

RC: raw, raw, times

RC: So, back to Mrs. Brown.

RC: She then says...

RC: Well, the first thing I have to do is to get you moved to my jurisdiction.

RC: I do not want you going to Norfolk for a physical.

RC: YES MA'AM! Whatever you say, MA'AM!

RC: Then I'll have your physical done in Roanoke VA, I'll pick a date when some of the more liberal doctors are going to be there.

RC: In the meantime, you need to go home and talk to your doctors. Anything and everything in your medical records will be of help.

RC: Yes MA'AM!

RC: So I drove home that day or the next --then about a 5 hour drive.

RC: And went to our family doctor, the only doctor I had ever used.

RC: BAD NEWS!

RC: Some years prior, Elizabeth CIty had a major downtown fire.

RC: It took out a city block.

RC: Took a week to quit smoldering.

RC: Guess what had happened to my medical records?

RC: Ashes.

RC: Oh shit.

RC: The doctor was my next door neighbor. Knew the family very well.

RC: His nurse, Mrs. Ames, knew my mom & dad very well.

RC: The doc couldn't do much except write some sort of lame note --an obvious draft dodge at the time

RC: But Mrs. Ames said, "you know, while the building was burning the firemen threw whatever records they could get their hands on out the windows into the streets.

RC: Some of those were ours.

RC: I'll see what I can find.

RC: I do not recall how many hours or days went by.

RC: But, she FOUND something.

RC: you still awake? there are more wild convergences of luck and blessings coming up.

FRIEND: I'm not going to bed until the end!

RC: ok.

RC: Seems that when I was 14 they had a mandatory tubercolosis test in the middle school.

RC: they had given us a shot, then lined us up a few days later to see if the shot area was red & puffy.

RC: So, as we were standing in line, just a few minutes before I went in to see the nurse

RC: a mischief-making friend of mine asked if i had had a reaction.

RC: i looked at my arm, it was pale.

RC: then that SOB pinched my arm where I had looked.

RC: Damn, by the time I got in before the nurse it was flaming red.

RC: Obviously, I had tubercolosis! hhh!

RC: I told the nurse, but these mandatory public health things don't allow for much explaining. OFF I WENT TO THE HEALTH DEPT FOR XRAYS.

RC: Now, these were torso xrays, going for the lungs. quite a few of them

RC: Guess what, NO tuberculosis.

RC: *BUT*

FRIEND: ......

RC: They did think they saw an odd overlap in my vertebrae and sent a memo of that to my family doctor.

RC: So

RC: He ended sending me out to the hospital for more xrays and an evaluation.

RC: This had generated quite a bit of xrays and papers that said, basically, "this might become a problem in the future."

RC: What Mrs. Ames found ~courtesy of our local firemen~ was a SINGLE, legal-sized xray evaluation.

RC: I wish I could say it was burned on the edges ...but I don't think it was.

RC: Would make for a better story.

FRIEND: I am imagining it burnt at the edges if that helps

RC: Still the street had been piled high with these files, mixed in with the debris and literally millions of gallons of water, so it was a miracle to just have that piece of paper in our hands.

RC: This prompted the good doctor's memory, and he was able to write a decent-sounding excuse based upon it. Not great, but decent.

RC: I made the rounds to the optometrist, too, claiming double-vision (truthfully, I had been really plagued by this in the first 2 years of college).

RC: But it had been mostly resolved. Still, I had the eye doctor to whip up an excuse note.

RC: The above was all I had. I had been too healthy for my own good, it seemed.

RC: So, I took it back to Mrs. Brown (I think a week or two had gone by)

RC: She says, basically, "This isn't much, but it'll have to do."

RC: I can't recall if it was then or later, but she eventually said "I've postponed your physical twice, I didn't like the doctors. You'll have to go this time, hopefully you'll get a good doctor."

RC: Jump forward a few weeks. On a Saturday morning we, the damned, have to meet at the Post Office to take an Army bus to Roanoke.

RC: When I get on the bus, Mrs. Brown gives me a big manilla clasp envelope and says "Give these to the first doctor you see." I assume that it's all my records and her related paperwork for me.

RC: Wrong assumption.

RC: It was for everybody on the bus ...but I didn't know that. Truthfully, I'm not thinking too clearly at the time --nervous.

RC: It was about a 90-minute bus ride, and the bus finally pulls up to the place. It had been built originally as......

RC: A MEAT PROCESSING PLANT!!! BWWWWAHAHAHAHA! God has a mean sense of humor.

RC: So, they tell us to strip to our shorts and queue us up in a long, serpentine line to be -well- processed.

RC: But, the guys doing the different little chechpoints are obviously not doctors, just corpmen.

RC: I have this envelope. I'm at least a third, maybe half way, through the checkpoints. I'd probably been in line 30 minutes at this point, maybe more.

RC: I'm getting really, really nervous now. Damn, I'm going to get through this whole thing and some doctor's going to say "Well, I wish I seen that. Sorry, too late now."

RC: So, I come around a screen (much of it was a large, open room --this was a meat plant, remember) and what do I see? A guy with a starched shirt and a stethescope.

RC: "Are you a Doctor??!"

RC: Yes.

RC: Well, Mrs. Brown said give you this. (hands envelope)

RC: He sits down at the desk and pulls out the stack.

RC: I'm standing beside the desk, still in the queue for the most part.

RC: He reads for a minute, then turns to me....

FRIEND: .........

RC: "So, Mr. Gribble, how long ago did you hurt your knee?"

FRIEND: ?

RC: MR GRIBBLE??? WTF is he talking about

RC: oh, yeah, i knew another student name Gribble, he was on the bus

RC: it dawns on me, that was everybody's paperwork

RC: "No. No! I'm Jordan."

RC: More shuffling of paper.

RC: He reads for a minute, then without saying JACK SHIT to me ...reaches for a stamp and stamps something on the paperwork

RC: At that time in the US, there was a 2-character code that people would bribe to get it on their records. "4F" --medical exemption

RC: He hands me the paper.

RC: I'm still in line.

RC: Down on the paper is 4F.

RC: -end-

FRIEND: Did you let out a yelp whilst inline?

RC: I think my heart being in my throat prevented that.

RC: Seriously, it took a while to sink in.

FRIEND: If you just flat out refused to go which prison they send you to?

FRIEND: military prison or?

RC: Usually Levinworth. Federal Prison.

RC: Few refused.

RC: Most that would not serve joined the Coast Guard or National Guard.

FRIEND: was that because of peer pressure?

RC: But the 'Guards' were jammed full, as you might imagine.

RC: No, it wasn't exactly peer pressure.

RC: How can I put this? ....More like "STAND" among rugby players. Does that make sense?

FRIEND: sort of

RC: A few fled to Canada.

FRIEND: If you said you were really busy and just couldn't fit it in I guess that wouldn't have washed right?

RC: yeah, you'd be on the front lines in a week. no training. no gun

FRIEND: hehehehehehehe

RC: But the choice to object was life-ruining, really. Akin to desertion.

RC: So, most took their chances.

FRIEND: now I'm going to bed, thanks for the story
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KaptainKrayola
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« Reply #6 on: July 20, 2010, 01:42:18 PM »

apparently you were destined for greater things, RC.  nice (And very lucky) story man.
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« Reply #7 on: July 20, 2010, 02:39:10 PM »

Problem with the american draft is that it is not universal.
It should be from lets say 18-20 all people inclusive, no exemptions.
If there was a universal draft, probably there would not be as many stupid wars.

I know even in Canada some guys have done like 4+ tours of afganistan.
Judging from my friends, many of them (30%) are secretly against the war but ....
A "professional soldier" is very dangerous, that is why under both the roman republic and under the origional USA republic there was no "professional soldiers".

The professional can not speak his mind, if he does it will damage his career.
Also the professional usually owes his allegiance to his "unit", there is a tendency to "close ranks".
He views himself as not part of society, but seperate from society.
This becomes a dangerous breeding ground for various groups to recruit like white supremists, right wing evangelical groups etc.

There was an article on reddit about how afganistan/iraq is becoming a "training ground" for US criminal gangs.
Quote
let's hope not - i'm fucking TERRIBLE at taking orders.
This is the silly civilians idea of the military.
In the military, especially when there is insurgent activity, lowly Corporals and sometime even Senior Privates are forced to make rapid life/death decisions.
Also they soon figure out how stupid and weak most civilians are.
Also in the past, the veterans where being kept content with 20 year pensions etc. Today the military to save money is reneging on these pensions.
You want thousands of malcontent veterans with insurgent fighting experience running around on your streets ?
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rcjordan
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« Reply #8 on: July 20, 2010, 02:51:48 PM »

>lucky

Yeah, if that kid hadn't pinched my arm....  if that xray record hadn't been tossed in the street during the fire...  A domino-effect of seemingly unrelated happenings.  The whole chain of events hangs by threads in about a dozen places.

BTW, as for Rangel's draft. He's done it before.

It's said to be 'a symbolic gesture that has no chance of becoming law' so you can relax for now, KK.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5hTZ9OdbSHnQ0PcY8zXXBrh5QW3pwD9GVORD84
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« Reply #9 on: July 20, 2010, 03:43:04 PM »

Yeah, if that kid hadn't pinched my arm....  if that xray record hadn't been tossed in the street during the fire...  A domino-effect of seemingly unrelated happenings.  The whole chain of events hangs by threads in about a dozen places.
So is life.
And if the short captain who always complained about how short he was, was actually the height of a normal person.
And if he did not have an inferiority complex because he was short, he would not have chased an insurgent into a mine field.
And if the mine on its wooden stake was not so old, it would not have been leaning to one side.
And so when he set it off, the blast passed harmlessly over his head (well it knocked him over and broke an ear drum).
But if he would have been normal height he would not have had a head  ROFLMAO ROFLMAO

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rcjordan
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« Reply #10 on: July 20, 2010, 04:12:03 PM »

>So is life.

Yeah, but it's rare that you're forced to confront the specifics.   I'd told the story of Mrs. Brown before when asked about military service, but it wasn't until re-reading that IM that I realized how many dominoes there were in that chain.

>So is life.
> if he would have been normal height he would not have had a head

Coming down the Rockfish Gap mountainside on Route 60, I looked in my rear-view mirror to see the tractor-trailer rig behind me lose control as we rounded the curve. The trailer jack-knifed and began sliding broadside across the (momentarily empty) on-coming traffic lanes.  He was blowing the airhorn and gaining on me bigtime so I sped up to about 90 mph --as fast as the Volkswagen van I was driving would go. He did the same and literally pulled the trailer back in behind the tractor by outrunning it.  A split-second later, traffic came around the curve headed in the other direction.  Those people never knew how close they came to being beheaded.
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« Reply #11 on: July 20, 2010, 08:43:26 PM »

gulf 1 started.
I was a civilian emt, and was informed at our "casualty preparedness briefing" that we were all eligible for "technical draft" and there was currently a shortage of medics. great...
My mom dragged me into NYC and got my swedish passport. lol
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« Reply #12 on: July 20, 2010, 09:11:58 PM »

Quote
It's said to be 'a symbolic gesture that has no chance of becoming law' so you can relax for now, KK

Even if it did become law there's a fatal flaw in it: the majority would completely demolish it, since the group required to serve - potentially against their will - would dramatically outweigh the remaining 43+ contingent Wink  This could simply fail to be ratified or even if it was, a new precedent would be demanded by vote from the newly "inconvenienced" majority, imo.

Worst case: everyone is government who supported it would wind up jobless at the next election and those who opposed would find a nice, comfortable new job awaiting them - swiftly overturning this radical proposal as their first order of business 
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