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[vsloathe]

You should still be able to log into the machine via SSH and kill the GUI which will free the machine up. Or do a graceful reboot if you really think it's hosed. That "lock up" is more than likely GNOME or KDE than the OS.

But if the system is still responding for SSH, you could just do ctrl+shift+del which instantly kills and restarts x windows and you have to login again, but most of the time you can recover whatever you were running before with screen.

[perkiset]

Ive had it where the GUI is utterly unresponsive (even to a CTRL-ALT-DEL) but complete access via SSH. Kill X and you're good to go.

[mampy]

I.e. Gui not responding on hosed SPWOD mac box..

on my old mac and ive tried this up to the g5's (dont have intel mac access yet besides vm) however, before the final ssh move, most of the time this will work:

command(which may now be control) - open apple - reset  (if you have the old style mac keyboard with the reset button this will work somewhere along the way the reset button disappeared..)

Dont know if this is as graceful as an ssh shut down  or if it behaves
the same way the ctrl-shift-del does(on *nix) regarding the run level three stuff
still chugging along after the gui reboots.... imo the ctrl-shift-del isnt
gonna keep applications tied to gui linked libraries running, only Run level three
type services will continue to run.

[mampy]

I found this, thought you machead/vmers might find it useful:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1343


control-command-eject is mentioned as ctrl-alt-del equive

option-command-escape brings up the force quit...

fyi

[perkiset]

nice find Mamps... unfortunate to know that the 3-finger salute exist in the Mac world, but where would we be without 'puters to fix?

[vsloathe]

Oh, btw I was thinking of ctrl+alt+backspace

that kills X.

It works even when the system won't respond to ctrl+alt+del

It's possible that a system could be completely gone to the point of that not working, but I have yet to see it happen.

[mampy]

but where would we be without 'puters to fix?

Just made 169$ using process of elimination to plug four computers back into a 10 port hub .... took me 3.5 minutes

i was like "local area connected yet?  1 or 0?  and when we found the four that were live to
the linksys i got a check for 169$ cause geek squad didnt show up ... couldnt agree with you
more...  every 2-3 weeks someone i know still begs me and pays me 50$ an hour to reload 98/xp
or hold the reset button down on their wrt54g.... Shit, an old man paid me 40$ to switch a fuse
out in his sweet old school jukebox that 'wouldnt come on' ...as long as idiots keep reproducing we can
keep writing software they will become dependant on... i mena look at the pseudo robots you
see in the health care industry and you may agree with me.... 

@vs: i think it is backspace but the line between backspace, ctrl-H rubout  and delete has been blurred
into my brain and watered down like the definitions of socialist and nationalist in the last 3o years that
i cant even think about what i want to implement any more. hahahah WTF HAPPENED TO RAD ....?!?!?!?

I love the multi tiered paradigm and agree its a good one as well... i just have HUGE issues with
multi script language adh'dexy'lexia ....

i think i just may go boil my brains in bunny blood and become a pool boy.. hahahaha   

i know the backspace key worked for me on kde but not gnome but what wasted horsepower..
i feel like im revving my engine generating wasted electricity cause im at 5600 rpms with the auto transmission in park here....

going nowhere....

 and i agree in my experience with nix i could usually still do the ctrl-alt-f1- f whatever thingie and
get another tty or gui... in spite of any crash i just never could figure out how to have two users on the same linux box
like i could on the macintosh (and i think vs figured this out as well but using a vm and vnc the same result can be produced
agnostic of the method.)

i surprised my mac nerd friend with command open apple reset trick....the three fingered salute was there on the  original motorola 16 bit mac that needed that really long hex screwdriver to work on  (which i still have along with your speaker phone that doesnt need external power for fone testing btw perk lol) to work on...

I mean when your playing SWASHBUCKLER, TAPPER or OREGON TRAIL on your 6502 apple //+ and the shit locks up and all the ascii characters start blinking and going 8x8 marquee random dots on you like the seemingly everywhere dot matrix (la story style) street signs that just seem to be in constant (their version of BSOD/SPWOD/Atari St Bombs) the command open apple reset was still there... and still is... only recently did the keyboard lose the reset button and may or may not have gained an eject button (rolls eyes to the point of pain) change bringing me back to my point of the babble tower .... i havent seen a working dot matrix sign in hampton roads in years...lol

[svakanda]

Was doing the only thing I use Windows for (gaming) on Windows 7 beta last night to see how it stacked up.

MUCH more stable, much faster than Vista. Seemed to beat XP. I would say it's impressive, except it's not at all. It's extremely impressive for Microsoft though.

windows 7 is astonishing coming from microsoft.  it definitely beats the pants off of xp or vista.

[perkiset]

Man I hope so. Vista is a real problem for me - many medical software vendors will not support it at all (even relying ABSOLUTELY on Office 2003 and such)... but there's other, more contemporary apps that rely on Office 2007 and supposedly would run better if in Vista. Nuts seems to think that Win7 is the bomb ... for M$' sake, I hope it is.

[jammaster82]

vista sux dick like oil down the back of an endangered waterfowl during the valdez hangover spill.... dont eat the salmon btw....sorry had to throw a waterfowl
liquid locomotion reference in there to make a stab at someone for the world
to hear.




but vista is to windows 7 as windows me/nt ended uup being to xp ... xp wins
and still does.... vista is just an eye candy hack of osx and ubuntu and the style
they are trying to capitalize on.... Even though ubuntu doesnt charge its big enough
now to be in dilbert land and is vulnerable to all the shit. inevitable IMO


Xp is now where 98 was, a five or six year old and mature OS...
whatever your os choice your shit is phoning home and your a guinea pig
face it.  Thats good for progress.....

Like any application, it takes a while.... windows 7 is bleeding edge
and xp is actually leading.....  osx is there as well... i just look at
the bleeding edge to see where i should be studying for 5 years from
now once they 'send error report' enough times to get it right but all that
being said... a win 98 virtual is a pretty solid thing now and xp is reaching there
Ubuntu is great and so is osx but that maturity of application development takes
time no matter what.... and notice how on any of the choices in your osquest you have
you still have to talk to the mothership for updates ... software is hard to write and
its a lot like painting.. you have some fast painters that come in and dont wipe up the
drips... and you have some that tape everything off 2-3 times charge 2-3 times as much
and the shit is polished and awesome.... both are required.. i just wish that technology
development would all go the way of unix (not the OKAY IVE GOT ENOUGH I CAN GRAB OUT OF THIS TO MAKE MY OWN RED HAT / FREE BSD / SUPPORTED / Whatever version it is all about just what it takes to make a mature application...

meanwhile java sits and waits in the balance... with its solid object hierarchy and scalable architecture..... cant wait to see when it reaches full maturity and all the molding and trim have ineffable solid lines that sell the home.. (not that homes are worth anything in this post america having been drunk on sub prime mortgages in the champagne room of the powers that be without getting anything now but overpriced champagne and in another one of my run on sentences making an analogy and suggesting that possibly when vhda and government bailouts of  mortages will offer the government control of the land whether ownership is forthright and blatant or not and we will be back in the same situation we were when we threw tea in the water over a 1% income tax and the last i checked i was paying 33+ percent and taking it up the coolita.... no lube.) anyhow... who ever thought it was a good idea to loan people more money than their houses were worth... I remember 145% Loan-to-Value stuff happening in the late nineties and wondering when the economy would catch up.

The point being that windows 7 will be awesome in three years... MS comes out with
a new flavor of their kool-aid every three years and they are the best at what they do.

Okay yea, mac is an awesome experience but the general public is running a hacked copy of xp and they are the bottom line best operating system out there.... the most finisher painters tying up the loose ends..

Ubuntu will soon fall by the babel wayside and windows will win.  I have spoken.

 

[nutballs]

windows 7 still comes up a little short on the usability leaps they could have made.

this is a video from an external source, and obviously there is liberal theft from assorted OSs, but still, why not just steal it? only a handful of fanbois will care, but 99% of buyers just want something easy and cool...
http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=4255076&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1

[jammaster82]

Im sold... does it play that music all the time?


lol i thought that .swf shockwave flash didnt exist anymore but there one is!

[schwagman]

windows 7 still comes up a little short on the usability leaps they could have made.

Specifically what usability leaps do you consider they could have made?

[nutballs]

the reality is that they need a very simple interface, designed for people who only do 1 or two things at a time.
like my parents.

they only surf the net.
or dick with photoshop.
not both at the same time.

on the other end, you have people like me and perk and most of you, who have 10 windows open, all relevant to 1 thing we are working on.

I am not sure what the solution is, but I am not an OS usability guru. Just a user.
However, i can say that some linux kid builds are on target. As are some kiosk style interfaces.
I have always thought that complexity should always be there, accessible to those who want it. Otherwise, provide a very very very simple starting point. such as a black screen with a big pretty icon for each type of thing you do, and then pop up the software choices. kind of like a media center interface.
photos and video
games
intarwebs
communicate
and 1 small red button that says ADVANCED (and make that button password protected)

dont give a way to fuck with things. my parents DO NOT need easy access to control panel. They DO NOT need the accessories folder. They need, photoshop, browser, email, internet radio/video, games (solitare). thats it. nothing more. The more options they get, the more often I have to fix their broken shit.

1 folder for everything they do. if they save a new file, it goes there. If they download something, it goes there. They cant change it. they can move the file after the fact, but don't give a way to change it. All that does is make it so they cant find it because they dont know where things are saved.

screen wise, hot corners are nice for us, but my parents will never get it.
popup volume control is compact, but hard to deal with for my parents.
multiphase icons (windows 7), nice at first glance, but really not much more help now that I use them.
multiple virtual desktops.... LOL do i even need to explain the EPCI FAIL that would be with my parents? (let alone me... where the fuck is photoshop?)

it seems that apple got it in some respects with the aquabar, big and pretty, but its just another wrapper on the same dried up cow patty.

Simple, pretty, and limited to begin with, is probably the route OSs need to go. But the problem is, who will have the balls to do it? Its a big leap, and a MAJOR deviation from the status quo of "icon, grids, features"  Don't provide shortcut keys to change anything at the OS level, like closing a window, or minimizing, or switching virtual desks, or or or or. Applications can do whatever they want. but I DO NOT want the phone call ever again of "where did the browser URL bar go?"

[rcjordan]

caution: small time warp in this thread

>perfect storm

in North America during the 2nd qtr 2009, netbooks made up over 25% of laptop sales

22% worldwide during the same period

http://www.displaysearch.com/cps/rde/xchg/displaysearch/hs.xsl/090831_mini_note_pc_netbook_shipments_grow_at_twice_rate_notebook_pcs_q2_09.asp