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Author Topic: The crocodile biting MS's leg isn't the one that eats it.  (Read 17049 times)
rcjordan
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« on: January 31, 2009, 10:15:33 AM »

Not Google. Not linux, well not directly.

Microsoft Missing Netbook Growth as Linux Wins Sales
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=a3VyE_ofSwwE&refer=news

The sound of empire falling
(should be subtitled Asus, Linux, and a recession create the perfect storm)
http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=762
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nutballs
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« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2009, 10:30:56 AM »

actually. I agree with Ozzy (the new ceo). MS needs to go back to focusing on what they are good at, which is software. the hardware game is for others to fight.

If what I am seeing with windows7 is any indication, they might have gotten their mojo back. And, a stripped version, could be pretty damn sweet as a netbook OS. The reality though is that the distinction between netbook, notebook, pocketpc, etc etc, will only be size very soon.
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rcjordan
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« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2009, 10:38:03 AM »

>The reality though is that the distinction between netbook, notebook, pocketpc, etc etc, will only be size very soon.

Agreed. In a way, their problem parallels the newspapers. Newspapers, even if/when they are successful online, cannot support their old infrastructure on the downsized revenue generated by the internet.  MS can't make it on netbooks and netbooks can't get to the pricepoint they need paying MS a licensing fee.

<added>
The margin gets thin in $10 laptops
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/30/indias-10-laptop-coming-february-3rd-take-that-negroponte/

So, following the trail, it seems it was really the OLPC that bit MS.

(Feb 3rd will be interesting. I have great doubts that this will materialize at $10 --$50, maybe.)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 11:18:01 AM by rcjordan » Logged
ekibastos
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« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2009, 01:34:40 PM »

Well, for my  , its fourteen years later and vista still
cant beat the BSOD just got this error message when i
booted back up after the crash, classic windows moments.
I dont think that MS is good at writing software they just
throw enough spaghetti at the wall with their money muscles
and some of it sticks... 41 percent drop in stock?!?!?  Guess
thats the spaghetti that fell down behind the oven....

So I dont really know how good they think they are at writing
software I just think they have more money muscle. I was just
surfing/researching some AJAX stuff when it happened...
 nuttin' to technical or anything.

Code:
Problem signature:
  Problem Event Name: BlueScreen
  OS Version: 6.0.6001.2.1.0.768.3
  Locale ID: 1033

Additional information about the problem:
  BCCode: 116
  BCP1: 87452510
  BCP2: 8DA08190
  BCP3: 00000000
  BCP4: 0000000D
  OS Version: 6_0_6001
  Service Pack: 1_0
  Product: 768_1

Files that help describe the problem:
  C:\Windows\Minidump\Mini013109-01.dmp
  C:\Users\ekibastos\AppData\Local\Temp\WER-177981-0.sysdata.xml
  C:\Users\ekibastos\AppData\Local\Temp\WERC64A.tmp.version.txt

Read our privacy statement:
  http://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?linkid=50163&clcid=0x0409


Problem event name :  BLUESCREEN?!?!?!   will windows 7 still have this issue?
This is hardly acceptable.  I still see the asp errors on plenty of pages out there on
the web.. Any good programmer traps all their errors.. why should i the end user
even see this message or have to know about it... cant they crash like osx and not
die .... gnome or kde can die and you can hit ctrl-alt-backspace and when it comes
back up all the programs are still running in the kernel because they
are detached from the gui/gnome/kde thingie  and not a moebius loop sort of
 pretended protected kernel. (i.e. any MS os)

If im not mistaken the BSOD issue goes back to windows 95 doesnt it that makes it 14 years
and no solution?!?!?! Are they just ignorant of the whole protected kernel idea?!?!?!

At least they have embraced the problem and called it for what it is... the very least
they could do just short of actually FIXING IT!!!

@thedistinction between netbook, notebook, pda, and desktop being only size soon:

I don't see why they dont push the xen, hypervisor, paravirtualization and transparent
virtualization concepts to the point where hardware will even become irrevelant... so
that all computers are virtualizing the same Guest hardware and OSes can all be written
for the same platforms.... and everyone can all be on the same team....
 i think the last 10 years have been an os race and if we all had the same
platform (which we kind of do now that the g4/g5 motorola stuff is out of the game and intel
is the new processor hardware monopolizer...).

I wonder how much farther along we would be if we hadn't been  splitting chr(13)'s and chr(10)'s
differently and playing hardware/os wars this whole time and we all had one unified platform.....

  sorry, im having a bad day and had to go off on a rant here..... im done now.
« Last Edit: January 31, 2009, 02:55:11 PM by ekibastos » Logged

<quote nutballs>
Apple is that hot chick that gives you lots of sex but is a total bitch with a horrible abusive temper.
</quote>
vsloathe
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« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 07:04:34 AM »

Was doing the only thing I use Windows for (gaming) on Windows 7 beta last night to see how it stacked up.

MUCH more stable, much faster than Vista. Seemed to beat XP. I would say it's impressive, except it's not at all. It's extremely impressive for Microsoft though.
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hai
ekibastos
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« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 01:18:35 PM »

This impresses me with its stupidity... i mean theres no admitted problem
on the first line.

second line, they want me to send a report to them. "IF I THINK THERES A PROBLEM?!?!"

well, first of all I KNOW THERE WAS A PROBLEM CAUSE I COULDN'T PING ANYTHING
SECOND HOW IN THE  Vomit AM I GONNA SEND THEM A REPORT WHEN I DON'T
HAVE A CONNECTION (which they are in denial about)

so they cover themselves with the third line and double speak against line one?

 D'oh!

I FEEL LIKE IM TAKING CRAZY PILLS!!! (oh wait i am... )


* problems.png (27.83 KB, 529x277 - viewed 436 times.)
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<quote nutballs>
Apple is that hot chick that gives you lots of sex but is a total bitch with a horrible abusive temper.
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« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 01:44:11 PM »

meh. same problem, any system.

BSOD will never go away, it will just get a different name or color.
mac has it, its the sad mac
linux has it, its called just crashing and rebooting.

its all the same shit, just different flavored toppings on the shit ice cream sunday.
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perkiset
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« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2009, 01:55:11 PM »

BSOD will never go away, it will just get a different name or color.
mac has it, its the sad mac
linux has it, its called just crashing and rebooting.
Actually, the sad mac was a hardware failure. The appropriate Mac flavored BSOD might as well be called the spinning pizza wheel of death. The Mac doesn't really BSOD so much as hang irretrievably. However, I have managed to SSH into a Mac in the SPWOD place and force a graceful shutdown.

Just sayin'.
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vsloathe
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« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2009, 02:50:17 PM »

No OS but Windows has it because Windows is the only OS where a GUI crash destabilizes the entire system.

Dood Nuts I respect your opinion on a lot of stuff but I completely and totally disagree. It doesn't sound like you know what you're talking about in this regard.

It's impossible to crash a linux computer completely barring hardware failure or a funky kernel glitch, but we're talking astronomical improbability here. It's a fundamental part of what makes the OS so good. Something in your GUI crashes, just ctrl+shift+del and the X windows manager restarts.

Also, you're lumping together Windows, which has one single solitary standard GUI (that runs in system space  D'oh! < what kind of idiot designed that), to Linux, which has no single GUI and is entirely customizable. You can say "KDE gives me BSODs all the time" and I'll say "Not the Linux kernel's fault".
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hai
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« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2009, 02:57:41 PM »

I prefer guru meditation errors on the amiga... lol

how about the atari st it would just have like those
cannonball bombs, depending on how bad the crash was LOL
the more bombs the harder the crash

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Row_of_bombs

DAMN IM old, did i just say atari st and amiga?

« Last Edit: February 02, 2009, 03:09:17 PM by ekibastos » Logged

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Apple is that hot chick that gives you lots of sex but is a total bitch with a horrible abusive temper.
</quote>
nutballs
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« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2009, 03:02:46 PM »

I wasnt overstating my position, and its still true.

but you are correct. the GUI is integral to the operation of windows, and generally is the primary process, so if it goes, all shit gets stuck.

obviously I don't have as much exp with linux as I do win, but I have had my little dev box lock up on me fatally, with the keyboard locked out, unable to do shit under linux, just like windows. usually of course a three finger salute will fix it of course, but not always.

My point is, even if you can recover from a GUI failure under linux, why is that acceptable, but a BSOD is not under windows? Both will cause loss of work most likely.

and guru meditation was freaking awesome. About as useful as BSOD
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perkiset
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2009, 03:07:34 PM »

It's impossible to crash a linux computer completely barring hardware failure or a funky kernel glitch, but we're talking astronomical improbability here. It's a fundamental part of what makes the OS so good. Something in your GUI crashes, just ctrl+shift+del and the X windows manager restarts.

Werd. I did manage to torch a Red Hat machine a couple years back, I had a runaway logging process that put dozens of millions of little files in a single directory over the course of a couple years and the file system got into some weird panic - not a kernel panic, but a file system panic that made the machine completely un-talk-toable. I had to bounce the machine then getting rid of the files was a gigantic nightmare. But it's fair to say that I had to work *really hard* to bomb the box LOL.

The stability of *nix is pretty damn amazing. Agree that you cannot blame an app for the kernel - I've had to cycle Apache loads and loads of times in my cage over the last 8 years, but it doesn't affect the boxes at all. I forget how much I love it until I do what I'm doing right now, a wholebuncha Windoz box install for a new client. Sheer misery.
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perkiset
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2009, 03:09:16 PM »

obviously I don't have as much exp with linux as I do win, but I have had my little dev box lock up on me fatally, with the keyboard locked out, unable to do shit under linux, just like windows. usually of course a three finger salute will fix it of course, but not always.

You should still be able to log into the machine via SSH and kill the GUI which will free the machine up. Or do a graceful reboot if you really think it's hosed. That "lock up" is more than likely GNOME or KDE than the OS.
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It is now believed, that after having lived in one compound with 3 wives and never leaving the house for 5 years, Bin Laden called the U.S. Navy Seals himself.
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2009, 04:08:45 PM »

right. but the point is, two different beasts for two different riders.

windows/mac = most people
linux = nerd

form a poweruser/nerd point, linux CAN be better, but there are way too many situations where it just plain isn't. graphic design being one.
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perkiset
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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2009, 04:11:17 PM »

windows/mac = most people
linux = nerd

Fair enough.  Nerd
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