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[Bompa]

I heard that Japan is/was accountable for 10% of cloud-computing-somethingorother, true?

I also heard that Japan (main island) is sitting lower in the water now, odd isn't it?

I also heard that the moon and sun are so aligned as to cause higher tides atm.

Damn!

I also heard GE claim that the 40yo design of the Fuku-helpus-shima plant has no faults.

The entire nuclear, radiation, meltdown problem has been caused by the emergency backup
generators failing due to flooding?  Hello?  Anyone home?

WTF are they located?  In the basement?

The 2004 Indian Ocean Tsunami caused waves up to 100 feet high.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_Indian_Ocean_earthquake_and_tsunami

A child can see the problem.


Bompa

[nop_90]

Hind sight is 20/20

Windscale nuclear accident is one you rarely hear about.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windscale_fire
If filters had not have been installed, which was a stupid wasteful thing to do, entire Europe would have been irradiated.
Also using a reactor for what it was not designed to do in the first place.
It makes japan's preparations look brilliant in comparison.


Also it is not a "meltdown", there is nothing wrong with the reactors themselves.
It is the used fuel rods.
They are sitting in a pool of water, which needs to be cooled down. That is where the problem is ocuring.
They are adding more water.

Before 2004 we did not know much about Tsunami's
The last Tsunami that was that large was Krakatoa.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1883_eruption_of_Krakatoa
Sounds mind boggling now, but Europe did not find out to one year later.
From all the dust from the volcano, was causing climate problems in Europe. But they did not know the cause.
So they had to send an expedition there to find out what was happening.

Even the Galveston hurricane of 1900 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1900_Galveston_hurricane
The outside world did not know a disaster happened until several days later.

So until recently what happen at Krakatoa for example, all they had to go on was "eye witness" accounts.
Many of the investigators thought that a 100 foot high wave was not possible.

[Bompa]

Hind sight is 20/20

Yes, but if you are an Safety Engineer at a nuclear power plant
on an island near a well known earthquake zone and if you heard
of the 100 foot wave from the quake in Sumatra/Indonesia (which
is not far away), that killed 250,000 people, you should double
check your fuking BACKUP SYSTEMS!  DUH!

Also it is not a "meltdown",

When any fuel rod overheats to the point of "melting", it is a meltdown
no matter where they are located.

there is nothing wrong with the reactors themselves.

You mean except for the hydrogen explosions? 


More than one of the 6 inch stainless steel reactor containers has been damaged.

All the reactors are trash, they are saying that plant will never run again.


Why?

Cuz the BACKUP generators got flooded beyond belief.  They could not dry
them, They could not repair them.  A good mechanic can tear down a motor
and put it back together (dry) in one day.  Now imagine that you have a team
of engineer/mechanics to do the job!  They probably could not get close
to them, I think they were submerged. There has been very little talk abou it.

[nop_90]

There was a good link on reddit explaining how a reactor works in layman's terms.
And exactly what the problem is.
I am too lazy to go look for it.

1) No meltdown is occuring. A meltdown can only occur inside the reactor itself.
2) The hydrogen explosion is caused by the excessive heat in the spent fuel rods. It is a chemical reaction which generates hydrogen.
3) If any spent fuel rods melted, it is because of the heat caused by the burning hydrogen, and the aluminum which covers fuel rods.
4) A nuclear explosion can not occur with spent fuel rods, if it could the rods would not be "spent".
5) for the nuclear reactors themselves, when an earthquake happens the control rods drop into place, effectively shutting down the reactor. It is shielded with 5 levels of shielding. So even if a meltdown ocurred, it would still be safe.

I am not saying what happened in japan was not preventable. But nuclear accidents compared to oil industry accidents are rare.
Honestly probably more cancer/health danger caused by the burning oil refinery in japan (incomplete combustion of oil causes nasty chemicals to be made) and the BP spill.
Also it depends on the type of radiation being released.

Anyway as usual the news media should be educating people. But instead they just they just spread hype and try and make a news story.
So they use terms like "china syndrome", "meltdown" randomly.

Even in chernobyl which was a flawed design. The accident was caused by negligence.
If the Russians had right away evacuated people, the would have been very few casualties.
Despite russian negligence, the casualties from chernobyl are far below what was initally reported.

I am not defending nuclear power.
I am saying compare how many oil refinery accidents/fires ocured in the last 10 years.
Massive amounts of carcogenic chemicals, and other nasty shit is released.
I am just saying put things in perspective.

[Bompa]

Yah, yah, yah.

All I'm saying is that even if YOU were incharge, the backup generators would
have been higher up off the ground, imo.

I just can't figure a reason for the BACKUP generators at a nuclear
power plant to get submerged in flood waters (if that's what happened).

[nop_90]

All I'm saying is that even if YOU were incharge, the backup generators would
have been higher up off the ground, imo.

I just can't figure a reason for the BACKUP generators at a nuclear
power plant to get submerged in flood waters (if that's what happened).

Probably because they copied a US design where it did not matter where the generators are.
Maybe you might have thought of putting generators on higher ground bombs
Me honestly I don't know.

Just saying the moment you mention the words "nuclear","radiation",etc people start to panic.
While if you mention the words "oil refinery fire","oil well blowout" etc people don't freak out as much.
And yet from a health perspective both could be just as dangerous.

[nop_90]

Update, bomps, you where right about the meltdown,
The Japs and Americans where lying from day 1.

Looks like it is very serious
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1371793/Fukushima-nuclear-plant-entombed-concrete-Japan-admits-battle-crippled-reactors-lost.html

Possibly more serious then chernobyl
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/mar/29/japan-lost-race-save-nuclear-reactor
There was in fact a meltdown, and it has melted through the protection.

Rather ironic USA was slamming Russia at the time for not releasing details, for poorly designed reactors etc.
Seems that US designs seem to be little better then Russian designs.

Also the fallout from the reactors is larger then Chernobyl
http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn20305-caesium-fallout-from-fukushima-rivals-chernobyl.html?4

These are from fairly reliable "sources".
After 5 days the Russians admitted they had lost control at Chernobyl, while USA/Japan is still saying things are "not that serious"
And the news media was slamming the Russians like shit.
Meanwhile when an ally does the same thing, perfectly ok.

[Bompa]

hmmm, the coverage on CNN International and Aljezeera are still
minimizing the health hazard.

I still don't understand why they didn't just bring in some portable
backup generators on the 1st day?

I guess I'll have to wait for the book to come out, or the movie.

Thanks nop,
Bompa

[nop_90]

I still don't understand why the didn't just bring in some portable
backup generators on the 1st day?

I am no nuclear scientist, but I did read a few books on the subject.
If the problem was the cooling ponds for the spent nuclear rods, then extra generators would have solved the problem.
A spend rod has a temperature of like 200 C, and they are in like olympic sized swimming pools.
That all the water would boil off in just 1-2 days seems very suspect.
They are stored in pools with like 10m of water above them.
So the radium painted hands on your old fashion wristwatch, or on military compasses theoretically are slightly higher temperature then the surrounding area.
The radiation/heat released from them is due to radiative decay.

While a nuclear meltdown, means the core is out of control.
As in an actual nuclear reaction is taking place.
Hence the really high radiation levels, etc.
If that happened they must have know it from day 1, and did not release the news.
Also theoretically the core is not supposed to be able to get through the containment.

I used to be pro nuclear power, but after this I am starting to question nuclear power I think maybe there are better alternatives

[isthisthingon]

Here: http://www.npr.org/2011/03/24/134828205/a-country-divided-japans-electric-bottleneck?ft=1&f=1001

"One major problem is that the east and west of Japan have different electric cycles and the capacity of the connectors are very much limited," he says.

That's partly an accident of history. Eastern Japan followed the German model and has a 50-cycle electrical power grid. The western part of Japan used the American model and has a 60-cycle grid. Transferring power from one grid to another requires a very expensive facility. And there are only three connections between eastern and western Japan. That bottleneck means the power transfer is just a trickle, even during this national emergency. Creating more capacity would take years.

[nop_90]

 
Solution in the Philippines is to generate power at 55 Hz Or so it seems
And all houses are mysteriously wired with 110V and 220V
So all the surplus electronic devices from other countries can be plugged into it, and equally run poorly
And you end up with a zillion power adaptors, from the british ones, to the german ones etc.
Just plug the device in, and if a massive amount of sparks fly out of it, that solves the problem

[BUENAVENTURA]

Guys,,,,,,,
I am really thankful to all for sharing the most valuable information about why we not live in Japan. After information I can say that People should not live in Japan .

[perkiset]

Oh FFS.

[isthisthingon]