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Author Topic: Envisioning A Sustainable Future  (Read 2636 times)
isthisthingon
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« on: March 18, 2010, 12:06:38 PM »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/travis-walter-donovan/the-zeitgeist-movement-en_b_501517.html

Don't listen to me when it comes to macro economics.  I'm a crazy "communist" who actually thinks these guys have some really good ideas - perhaps even better than the reigning champions of our times: the market fundamentalists.  They're sane, and correct... and patriotic.
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rcjordan
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« Reply #1 on: March 18, 2010, 01:33:30 PM »

>zeitgeist movement

"This suggests to me a very strong indication that a non-recognized source of systematic errors may have been involved"  --Einstein

IOW, they're nuts.

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isthisthingon
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« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2010, 01:47:04 PM »

>zeitgeist movement
IOW, they're nuts.

Yes sir, and so am I.  I wouldn't be so bold as to say that they have the "answer" at all.  But I believe that the spirit of their endeavor along with the knowledge gained from a vast history of capitalism as being a complete and utter failure, gives their movement credibility worthy of more than an offhand dismissal.  They are nothing but nuts to most of the world but if you look deep into what they propose as an alternative to everything we currently "know" and assume about how society "should" be constructed, I think you'll find some great ideas.  However, these ideas are only appealing to the community-minded and typically infuriate the treasure hunters.

Smiley 
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rcjordan
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« Reply #3 on: March 18, 2010, 02:28:09 PM »

This movement isn't even close to the fringe of reality, much less sustainability.  Samples from their FAQ:

Who makes the decisions in a resource based economy?

No one does. The decisions are arrived at by the introduction of newer technologies and the carrying capacity of the earth. Computers could provide this information with electronic sensors throughout the entire industrial, physical complex.

There would be no need for any high stressed jobs; there could be a large enough rotation of personnel to practically eliminate any high stress jobs until they can be phased out by innovative technology.

http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=28&Itemid=66#1
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« Reply #4 on: March 18, 2010, 04:08:24 PM »

This movement isn't even close to the fringe of reality, much less sustainability.  Samples from their FAQ:
....
There would be no need for any high stressed jobs; there could be a large enough rotation of personnel to practically eliminate any high stress jobs until they can be phased out by innovative technology.

What a bunch of fuking pussies.
Life without stress would be fuking boring.

As the american empire begins to collapse you will see more of these pussy "religions" begin to emerge.
Kinda like what happened to the roman empire.

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perkiset
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« Reply #5 on: March 18, 2010, 05:46:54 PM »

FFS Nop, you really need to get laid more. You seem very grumpy.
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« Reply #6 on: March 18, 2010, 05:51:26 PM »

@ ITTO: I really smirk at the notion that because something seems unattainable it must be stupid, or not worth trying.

Since none of us are actually going to pull it off, what's the point in trying to save the planet? I mean really.

It's also a dangerous thing, someone that has facts and statistics to show why our belief in pure capitalism may not be exactly what we are all told, all the time.  Shocked

BTW: Just dropped oldest son off in the Quest room in Utah (teen version). Thought of you a lot Smiley
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« Reply #7 on: March 18, 2010, 06:31:45 PM »

FFS Nop, you really need to get laid more. You seem very grumpy.

Getting laid is boring.
Like fuking shooting fish in a barrel.
No fun getting laid if there no challenge.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 07:35:48 PM »

Ha!  I love the thinly veiled discomfort that things like this invoke in some of the brightest and best intentioned people.  Well, in nop's case it's the survival of the fittest, law of the jungle brand of "good intentions."  But I'm sure that somewhere deep underneath his new world order master plan complete with a harem of hot girls, his intentions are good as well.

What a bunch of fuking pussies.
Life without stress would be fuking boring.
As the american empire begins to collapse you will see more of these pussy "religions" begin to emerge.
Kinda like what happened to the roman empire.

The Roman Empire was defeated by packs of pussies? ROFLMAO  Or was it a result of the packs of pussies from within their empire somehow?  Were the Romans themselves pussies spawning pussy religions or were pussy religions organically forming from the empire's collective inner-pussy?  Feeling flummoxed I ponder the question: Where exactly do these pussies appear in the 100-year fall of the Roman Empire.... hmmm  Undecided  Oh wait Idea... I think you're referring to the Goths!  Yeah those guys were total pussies.  Lawless, free from stress, bored out of their skulls and impossible to govern with unbreakable spirits and no reason to live.  You know the type Roll Eyes  What about another possibility?

I believe the Roman Empire fell as a result of the people that rejected their rule.  This started when outsiders known as Goths were invited in to the empire without proper Roman indoctrination.  This medieval and brutal practice of breaking people down and crushing their spirits before grooming them back up in the image the empire was a fatal missed step on the part of the Romans.  Today similar elements can be found in basic training, religion and de-centralized social control mechanisms (that don't exist).  Ever wonder why America has such a disgraceful imbalance of incarcerated per capita?  Oh yeah, they literally can't vote when they return to society.

Anyway, the Goths that revolted and destroyed the Roman Empire were anything but pussies as the Visigothic kingdom that reigned after they fell proves out.  But I ask you this question: have you ever wondered or questioned when someone expresses an emotion about something such as anger or a hint of violent disgust when the thing being considered when viewed rationally and without emotion doesn't have reason to evoke such reactions?  It's far easier to see in others than in yourself.  I can't possibly know but I can only guess.  My best guess is that this challenges some extremely core beliefs, perhaps primarily subconscious beliefs, that cause our survival instincts to growl a little.  Just something to consider Smiley

>rceinstein

I read this article about the origin of that Einstein quote.  Love it!  And damn funny considering what his dry humor was implying.  A few salient points to consider.

Quote
It was the offer from the California Institute of Technology (Caltech) in Pasadena, on the outskirts of Los Angeles, that proved most enticing, thanks to their top astronomer, Edwin Hubble, who had seen distant galaxies streaking away from Earth through his 100in telescope. Here was proof that the universe was expanding, an observation that refuted Einstein's view of the universe as a fixed sphere. Intrigued, he and his wife travelled west in 1931.

"Even if I saw a ghost I wouldn't believe it." - Albert Einstein

And finally:

Quote
Curiously enough, when Einstein was asked, years later, about his beliefs in the telepathic experiments of Dr JB Rhine, then studying parapsychology at Duke University, he stressed his scepticism in strictly scientific terms. All of Rhine's experiments had reported that psi-forces did not decline with distance, unlike the four known forces of nature - gravity, electromagnetism, the strong force and the weak force. "This suggests to me a very strong indication that a non-recognised source of systematic errors may have been involved," Einstein wrote.

Indeed it was scientific fallacies such as these, rather than drawing room seances, that could most reliably send a shiver up Einstein's spine. When he was confronted with seemingly illogical phenomena in quantum mechanics - where particles appear to communicate instantaneously with each other - he chose to label it in terms more suited to one of Sinclair's seances as "spooky action-at-a-distance".

Quote
@ ITTO: I really smirk at the notion that because something seems unattainable it must be stupid, or not worth trying.

 Ditto  And if Darwin isn't throwing in the towel then neither am I, God damn it  Devilish
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 07:40:16 PM by isthisthingon » Logged

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isthisthingon
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« Reply #9 on: March 18, 2010, 07:37:57 PM »

Like fuking shooting fish in a barrel.

I'm really warming up to the idea of living in PH, assuming your use of fish is strictly metaphorical.  I can live with the barrel though  ROFLMAO
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nop_90
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« Reply #10 on: March 18, 2010, 09:30:53 PM »

The Roman Empire was defeated by packs of pussies? ROFLMAO  Or was it a result of the packs of pussies from within their empire somehow?  Were the Romans themselves pussies spawning pussy religions or were pussy religions organically forming from the empire's collective inner-pussy?  Feeling flummoxed I ponder the question: Where exactly do these pussies appear in the 100-year fall of the Roman Empire.... hmmm  Undecided  Oh wait Idea... I think you're referring to the Goths!  Yeah those guys were total pussies.  Lawless, free from stress, bored out of their skulls and impossible to govern with unbreakable spirits and no reason to live.  You know the type Roll Eyes  What about another possibility?
Common mythology is that goths created the fall.
But ....
Find a picture of a Roman legionaire from cira 1AD
Find a picture from cira ~400 AD.
You can clearly see that his equipment is not as good as in 1AD

What happened between the 2 points in time ?
Where did the funds that where supposed to fund the legions go ?
Why would they want to pin the blame on goths Smiley
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #11 on: March 19, 2010, 02:21:19 AM »

>Why would they want to pin the blame on goths

 Huh?

They were retarded?  Wait... no. They were gay AND retarded!   ROFLMAO
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rcjordan
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« Reply #12 on: March 19, 2010, 04:12:00 AM »

We can envision a lot of things that aren't ever going to intersect with reality. Given the on-going collapse of marijuana possession laws in the US, this poor soul had a vision that had a better chance than Zeitgeist Movement's Kumbaya Plan:

'On his Wikipedia user page, he wrote of his hopes of seeing "billions and billions of carefully cultivated, highly valuable cannibis plants growing through the United States with complete security of property." He envisioned the plants used as part of a new monetary system tied to the value of a gram of cannabis.'

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703915204575103131123111518.html

>discomfort

This ZM thing didn't even get close to my discomfort zone though I did ~for a brief moment~ catch the scent of a Scientology-like societal tumor.  That was quickly dispelled, however, by image of Sandra Bullock making the sign of the trilogy while muttering "...And world peace."

>Einstein

I think I picked up that quote from an article on Spinoza's god
« Last Edit: March 19, 2010, 04:14:06 AM by rcjordan » Logged
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