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Author Topic: Java n00b - looking for good resources  (Read 4993 times)
iSully
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« on: April 28, 2008, 12:49:33 AM »

Hi all,

I am new to the programing world.  I have been doing alot of research and have found that Java is the most stable still to have and once learned there are other avenues to branch to.  I was just looking for some advice as to if I have made the correct choice and if I have; what good resources are there?  To start learning I have just installed xCode on my PowerBook G4 and I have purchased O'Riley's Head Start Java book.  I look forward to hearing from all of the great advice that is available here.

Sully
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perkiset
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« Reply #1 on: April 28, 2008, 09:43:02 AM »

I am new to the programing world.  I have been doing alot of research and have found that Java is the most stable still to have and once learned there are other avenues to branch to.
You'd better quote your source on that... I'd assert that Java is both A) nominally stable, not exceptional and B) only as stable as your programming skills in general, just as any language would be.

IMO, Java is NOT a good language to start with, because there are so very many different frameworks, methodologies and such that will take you in directions that seem important at the time, but do not really forward your programming skills much.

Since you are going xCode, I'd suggest Objective C, which is going to be just as hard/easy as Java, but will bind to the OS more easily and quickly. Remember: Java is a language that operates inside of a virtual machine on your computer - so there is a whole 'nuther layer between you, your code, and the OS. As an additional cherry, learning Objective C on the Mac gives you the capability to instantly extend your knowledge to coding for the iPhone. By registering yourself as a developer at Mac, you can get the entire iPhone development set (it plugs into xCode) and the emulator, so even if you don't have an iPhone you can write code for it and see it work in the emulator. It's pretty sweet.

If you really do want to go Java, then the Head First books are good (that's how I started) and there are several variations of the For Dummies and Learn In 24 Hours variety, which will be the most simplified and get you to code as quickly as possible. You may find the O'Reilly style appeals to you, it does not appeal to me and I use them only when they are the only option.

All that said, welcome to The Cache sully, and good luck with this journey - it's a great one.
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« Reply #2 on: April 28, 2008, 10:25:21 AM »

ah, the programming journey. Get this one out of the way...

1 ) look at your hand
2 ) ball your hand into a fist
3 ) look at your crotch
4 ) move fist in a single rapid motion towards crotch
5 ) along the way make minor course corrections to assure eventual contact with two oblong orbs located at crotch
6 ) increase speed to maximum
7 ) impact
8 ) wait 30
9 ) loop

java is a good choice for a few reasons, such as perceived value in the corporate world (ibm websphere did a great selling job there), and similarity to all other C-like languages. Additionally, Java is good because it can allow for both client side application and web application development. However, the bad side is, its Java. Java is a beast. Like perk said, everything seems to be a framework, which is a great time saver once you know what you are doing, but prevents you from learning how to actually program IMO.
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« Reply #3 on: April 28, 2008, 05:59:04 PM »

 ROFLMAO @ stable
java compile once, crash anywhere
also when you take into account, it is slow, over-bloated .....

If you are new to programming,
learn python,ruby, or php

i am partial to python
once you learn the concepts of OO etc, java/C/C++ is a snap

If you want to learn a low-level language go the C/C++ route.
Learning anything proprietory is a waste of time.
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jammaster82
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« Reply #4 on: April 29, 2008, 12:06:39 AM »


If you are new to programming,
learn python,ruby, or php


 Ditto

im gonna say php as it is the most
platform agnostic.  even C continues to
change... ive been in the game
a long time (more like sitting the bench lol)
 but it seems every 4-5 years i have to learn
a new language so i say just learn how to learn...

 
« Last Edit: April 29, 2008, 12:08:56 AM by jammaster82 » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: April 29, 2008, 03:52:16 AM »

@jam
perl is most platform agnostic probably, but hard to learn.
php,ruby,and python for practical purposes are equal

technically python is most platform agnostic since they run on wince (i know does also)
also there are versions of python that target java VM (jython) and .net plaform (iron python)

if u do not want to learn new language, learn lisp Smiley other languages are still playing catchup for lisps features. Smiley
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vsloathe
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« Reply #6 on: April 29, 2008, 06:12:37 AM »

My Java dev friends say that Java performace issues are an old wives' tale at this point.
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« Reply #7 on: April 29, 2008, 12:37:21 PM »

You are prolly right vs, however....the only java ap that I have dealt with in a while is the 'file manager' in webmin.

Perhaps it's my snarky lil server but it takes three weeks to get loaded and six days to reload after you click on somewhat.  Well, a little exaggeration there.  But not much.

I've grown used to php aps doing their thing and doing it very quickly. 

I actually tried out java a few years ago, I still get updates from Sun, but I quickly got tied up in my lavendar pantyhose, and don't use it at all now.

Sully, I'm not what anyone you would call a coder, so take this for what it's worth:  Decide what you want your programming language to do and find the best language that will do that.  Learn it.  The rest will follow nicely.
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perkiset
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« Reply #8 on: April 29, 2008, 01:05:40 PM »

Java is like a car that needs constant tweaking. It may go really fast if you get everything just right, but if you don't it can either sputter or refuse to start... and if you don't like twisting a wrench you could be screwed.

I'd take all that complexity out of the equation when learning to program.
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« Reply #9 on: April 29, 2008, 02:50:58 PM »

Java is like a car that needs constant tweaking. It may go really fast if you get everything just right, but if you don't it can either sputter or refuse to start... and if you don't like twisting a wrench you could be screwed.

I'd take all that complexity out of the equation when learning to program.
Pretty much sums it up.
Java was decided by a committee.
Instead of having practical shit that people use, they basically voted on what is the best API etc.
As a result you end up with a mess.

Even if it is not slow, the API sucks shit, it is bloated etc.
Even using java from something like jython is a pain in the fuking ass.

Also Java has all sorts of stupid safe guards so that stupid newbies /  crappy programmers can not hurt themselves
Waste of space, waste of time

For windows python download is like 10.1 M, which includes everything u need to make proggies (the sdk), and includes a GUI, tons of basic modules etc.
Fucking just the java runtime is like 20+M, wtf do the shove in there to make it so big ?
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