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Author Topic: Windows 7? Don't Upgrade, Buy A New PC...  (Read 9448 times)
isthisthingon
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« on: October 18, 2009, 01:23:07 PM »

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I am among those who believe Windows 7 opens the door for Apple to sell Macs to current PC owners. The logic is that once people realize that upgrading their old XP box is best done by purchasing new hardware, a Mac might seem a very attractive alternative to a new Windows 7 machine.

I'll bet this is another reason people are choosing into Macs more these days.  The ripple effect of the bad Vista rollout will be felt for a very long time IMO.  Win 7 will probably be more of a success due to the fact that it's pre-installed on new PCs, not because people like me like trying new things.  Wiping a Vista Ultimate machine just to reinstall everything in order to get... not really many new features but better stability??  My Vista PCs are totally solid, run games like champs, and probably since I've gone 32-bit, 4GB RAM (+4GB ReadyBoost), 512MB Nvidias  I don't see any performance reasons to upgrade. 

http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/101609-windows-7-dont-upgrade-buy.html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_daily_pm_2009-10-16
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kurdt
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« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2009, 11:44:02 PM »

I still can't understand how somebody can endure using Windows in their daily life. I can only assume they have getting used to the pain. That user interface just doesn't make any sense.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 01:14:55 AM »

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That user interface just doesn't make any sense.

A one-button mouse seems like a totally stupid design to me, but that's just my opinion.  The Mac interface seems like a design aimed at the elderly with exploding (enlarging) shortcuts rendered for the seeing impaired 

But I now understand why people like it.  I'm glad you and others I respect stand firm in your belief in the superior usability of the Mac OS (like my brother perks) since otherwise I'd believe it was just the preferred OS of the IT impaired  ROFLMAO

With an adequate user skill level I think most every currently available OS is extremely efficient.  However, the Mac OS is clearly more usable in the senior and cognitively impaired communities Wink

Honestly I'm willing to bet everything I own on this fact, as I see it: any truly adept IT person using Windows will match equally with another of the same skill level using OS X in terms of productivity.  I'm a fan of hot-key memorization as opposed to drag-n-drop UI paths.  In other words, give me a command line interface and I'll quickly become more productive than the handi-capable hoards relying on their ultra-user-friendly Mac OS to gimp them through execution paths that can be more expediently handled if you're capable of memorizing a few keystrokes 

That said, it's all a matter of taste.  I'm less of a fan of the Mac interface but totally respect it's brilliance and value to the less tech-capable world that swears by it.  And when the truly amazing IT folks I know also swear by it I have nothing but respect for their opinions.

Oh yeah, CNN just revealed that Steve Jobs is gay Grin
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kurdt
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« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 02:02:16 AM »

Honestly I'm willing to bet everything I own on this fact, as I see it: any truly adept IT person using Windows will match equally with another of the same skill level using OS X in terms of productivity.
Yeah, with spreadsheets Cheesy

Well seriously now, I have to disagree with you. In my opinion it's not that you couldn't do the same things with all modern operating systems, it's the little things. I used to be Windows user so I know the both worlds quite well. Personally I really dislike people who bash either OS without actually having used the other one a lot. In my opinion OSX inspires creativity and I'm not the only one who thinks this way. Of course I'm not saying that Windows doesn't let you be creative but the difference here is being inspired. Windows doesn't seem to do that for a lot of people. It's just a system where you run your programs if you know what I mean.

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That said, it's all a matter of taste.  I'm less of a fan of the Mac interface but totally respect it's brilliance and value to the less tech-capable world that swears by it.  And when the truly amazing IT folks I know also swear by it I have nothing but respect for their opinions.
I wouldn't say that it's for less tech-capable. I think OSX with the shell access is way more complicated than what Windows can be. The problem with Windows is that they try to incorporate easy-to-use from OSX and at the same time have all those million customize functions and shortcuts. The result is.. well, Vista & Windows 7 which are both hell to use, at least for me.

In my opinion it comes to priorities. Some people hold it very dear that they can customize their computer as much as they want. Windows offers quite a lot for these people. Mac instead forces you to follow what they think is the best way. I have a really bad problem with authority so you might think that I wouldn't like to be forced to use something just one way.

But here's the magic in OSX: When you are forced to do something only one way, you get it done because you know how to do it. And you don't get confused on your way to your goal.

This is where Windows gets it totally wrong. If I try to do something with Windows, there's like million different choices, then I get confused if I don't instantly see exactly what I was expecting to see and so on. It doesn't mean I don't know how to get it done in Windows but it just fucks up my workflow.

I always describe the difference between OSX and Windows like this: OSX is there so you can do things and Windows is there so you can use Windows.

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Oh yeah, CNN just revealed that Steve Jobs is gay Grin
If that were true, I doubt it would have much impact. Homophobic rednecks use cheap Windows PCs Cheesy
« Last Edit: October 19, 2009, 02:04:03 AM by kurdt » Logged

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isthisthingon
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« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 10:32:06 AM »

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In my opinion it comes to priorities. Some people hold it very dear that they can customize their computer as much as they want. Windows offers quite a lot for these people. Mac instead forces you to follow what they think is the best way. I have a really bad problem with authority so you might think that I wouldn't like to be forced to use something just one way.

But here's the magic in OSX: When you are forced to do something only one way, you get it done because you know how to do it. And you don't get confused on your way to your goal.

This is where Windows gets it totally wrong. If I try to do something with Windows, there's like million different choices, then I get confused if I don't instantly see exactly what I was expecting to see and so on. It doesn't mean I don't know how to get it done in Windows but it just fucks up my workflow.

Actually I agree 100%.  The only difference is it's the opposite for me: OS X fucks up my workflow.  I've become quite accustomed to having certain available paths to get things done and Windows allows me to do things the way I like to do them, not force me into the way it thinks I should be doing things.

But I have a Mac purchase on the horizon since as an IT person I want constant exposure to a variety of environments.  But even though the Mac UI feels less "natural" to me, I can still acknowledge that it looks totally beautiful and polished.  IMO Vista looks far better than XP but OS X is probably the most aesthetically pleasing of them all.  But how aesthetically pleasing does a command line need to be?  Grin
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rcjordan
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« Reply #5 on: October 19, 2009, 10:47:52 AM »

>fucks up my workflow.  I've become quite accustomed to having certain available paths to get things done

Exactly.

I go further, itto. If I'm ever going to be asked to sit down and help with a machine, then I require that the owner use certain directory names and tree protocols.  I also like certain views (i.e., list. with details) to be the default.  Otherwise, I walk or bitch & rant really, really loudly so that it doesn't happen again.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #6 on: October 19, 2009, 11:02:10 AM »

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If I'm ever going to be asked to sit down and help with a machine, then I require that the owner use certain directory names and tree protocols.  I also like certain views (i.e., list. with details) to be the default.  Otherwise, I walk or bitch & rant really, really loudly so that it doesn't happen again.

Nice idea Devilish  I think I'll tell that to my mom next time she wants free tech support Wink
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vsloathe
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« Reply #7 on: October 19, 2009, 11:32:56 AM »

You guys and your fucking GUIs and mice. Mice are for gaming, which is why there's no point in owning one that's less than 1200 DPI (pref 1500+). Using a mouse otherwise just slows me down to kretin speed.
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« Reply #8 on: October 19, 2009, 11:41:17 AM »

Works for me.

As for your mom, hell, she probably just runs whatever you set up for her anyway.  I'm alright until they start telling me that my demands are unnecessary or stupid.  Fine, then fix the goddam thing yourself.

>mice

SCREW a mouse and/or scroll wheel. Kensington Orbit track ball or keyboard commands.  No gaming.
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kurdt
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« Reply #9 on: October 19, 2009, 12:08:26 PM »

Actually I agree 100%.  The only difference is it's the opposite for me: OS X fucks up my workflow.  I've become quite accustomed to having certain available paths to get things done and Windows allows me to do things the way I like to do them, not force me into the way it thinks I should be doing things.
It took about 1 month of constant usage for me to become totally "ok" with OSX after using Windows for 10 years. Funny thing was that the problem was never that OSX was hard to use but the problem was that I was so used to think everything so complicated because of Windows, I didn't realize how easy it could be. Small thing but automated saving of preferences and dialogs is one thing. You just set it and close the window. In Windows you have to close "ok" or "save" or something like that. I know, hardly earth shaking but those little things add up quickly.

Now I'm not saying that my/OSX way is right and your/Windows way is wrong. All I'm saying is that give OSX some time to show everything it has. In my opinion because OSX is made so easy and simple, most people miss the little things under it that are there for power users.

I think Steve Jobs said it great when he said that Apple products are designed by artists, musicians and other creative people who just happen also to be brilliant coders/engineers as well. I also come from that side instead of hardcode coding/engineering side so I think that's one of the reasons why OSX feels so much better for me.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2009, 12:20:05 PM »

You guys and your fucking GUIs and mice. Mice are for gaming, which is why there's no point in owning one that's less than 1200 DPI (pref 1500+). Using a mouse otherwise just slows me down to kretin speed.

Although I understand your sentiment I think it's a little overstated, at least for me.  I'm perfectly fine with no mouse but tell me it doesn't come in handy when moving data from various deep path locations.  Yes you can organize everything just the way you like it and make it efficient on your PC.  But what about having to work with LAN locations?  I was in a blended Windows/Unix shop that had 5 flavors of Unix.  Even the best Unix keymasters couldn't match the speed of GUI file management and would grumble along as they used xWindows to keep up.

But mice for gaming?  Gaming is just another user experience.  Mine is 1800dpi since I'm picky about smoothness and love sniping the eyeballs of my enemy.  But vs honestly can't you understand any benefit beyond gaming?  Say, art for example? Grin
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rcjordan
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« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2009, 12:40:02 PM »

FINE art.  Mighty fine.
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rcjordan
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« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2009, 12:56:12 PM »

"The upgrade market for average PC owners is dead."

"But what common tasks in 2009 canít be accomplished by a 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 PC with Windows XP SP2 and a cable internet connection ó the average technology of 2004? Not much that regular people actually do."


Good blog post.  More than just about Vista and its problems.

http://www.marco.org/217159338

BTW, I've bought 2 of those 2.8 GHz Pentium 4 PC's (one Vista, one XP) in the past 6 weeks and may buy another one just because the price is in the sweet spot.  I'll throw W7 on the 3rd one and see if they've screwed up the directory tree. If not, I'll migrate.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #13 on: October 19, 2009, 01:01:04 PM »

Actually I agree 100%.  The only difference is it's the opposite for me: OS X fucks up my workflow.  I've become quite accustomed to having certain available paths to get things done and Windows allows me to do things the way I like to do them, not force me into the way it thinks I should be doing things.
It took about 1 month of constant usage for me to become totally "ok" with OSX after using Windows for 10 years. Funny thing was that the problem was never that OSX was hard to use but the problem was that I was so used to think everything so complicated because of Windows, I didn't realize how easy it could be. Small thing but automated saving of preferences and dialogs is one thing. You just set it and close the window. In Windows you have to close "ok" or "save" or something like that. I know, hardly earth shaking but those little things add up quickly.

There are so many similarities between OS X and previous versions of the Mac OS that I'm totally "comfortable" with it every time I use one since I've spent years of dedicated time on Macs.  It's definitely an improved experience from what it was before but damn if that "Chooser" doesn't ever go away (Finder)  ROFLMAO
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perkiset
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« Reply #14 on: October 19, 2009, 01:20:33 PM »

@RC & what common tasks cannot be accomplished...

The windows world disincentivises users to do more than one thing at once. Multiple monitors, virtual desktops and such - they are never quite seen as a benefit because the OS itself doesn't do a whole lotta things at once very well.

When I first switched to RH6 in about 2000 (something like that) and got my arms around virtual desktops and then got my brain around all the things that I could do at once it completely changed me up. People scoff at my 6 monitors and 8 virtual desktops... that's only because they do not yet understand.

But that said, I think the more important question is, "are there really that many people smart enough to make use of more than a 2.8GHz processor and a few gigs of RAM...?" And the answer is probably, "No."
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