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[isthisthingon]

Not that this is terribly interesting: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2010/100510-ballmer-promises-windows-tablets-by.html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_daily_pm_2010-10-05, but the legacy of following someone else's creative path has been nothing short of legendary at M$.  Windows tablet... in time for Christmas??    

Where's my checkbook 

[perkiset]

I think MS is going to have a helluva uphill battle with this.

The blend of the items in that slide show are either lower power items in the same range as the iPad or higher processing with a higher price. Which seems confused to me, since you can not compete, cycle-to-cycle with a desktop or even a notebook in this form factor - there's just no way you can do it. So the answer is clouded processing ... so why buy a higher-end product when what you really need is a "netbook of pads?" MS is in a REALLY rare position to capitalize on this advantage: they are already ubiquitous in the enterprise/corporate market - they should be focusing their items on extending the capability of (my company) to (my employees) without having to extend (my budget) on the SOS.

IMO, they'd also do far better if they all paid less attention to specs (how much RAM? How much storage?) and got to what they can do that iPad can't. Especially those things that have been an Achilles heel. (The only problem with this logic is that by time they all get to market, Apple will probably be in V2 and will have many of the advantage points covered...)

Runs Flash.
Has a camera, use Skype and video conference NOW.
Has USB: Connect any existing USB device to it. Drives, CDs, even a serial connection.
Wireless got you down? Use USB to connect directly to the net. Fire up PuTTY or another terminal and you've got a great terminal.
Hate pointing? Use a mouse.
Put every frickin' VPN mechanism in the world on it.

I honestly think that the manufacturers have got it completely wrong here, competing with the so-called hardware shortcomings, and not playing to the user capability shortcomings. They could differentiate themselves rather than, what it looks like they are doing, playing right into Apple's hands looking like Can We Play Too?

[nop_90]

M$ is destined to become another IBM. Not because they do not have the smarts or the money.
But because as companies get older they are more concerned about preserving present markets, instead of risks.
M$ makes buckets of $$$$ from thier crappy office software. No manager is going to propose switching to a new system, so
From the article it saids "mouse centric". This is a major problem.

Looking the wrong way when the real competition is over here.
iPad too pricey? This 10-inch Android tablet is just $300
http://dvice.com/archives/2010/09/archos-reveals.php
There are also rumors that HTC is in the game, but HTC is down playing its hand.

Runs Flash.
Has a camera, use Skype and video conference NOW.
Has USB: Connect any existing USB device to it. Drives, CDs, even a serial connection.
Wireless got you down? Use USB to connect directly to the net. Fire up PuTTY or another terminal and you've got a great terminal.
Hate pointing? Use a mouse.
Put every frickin' VPN mechanism in the world on it.

I honestly think that the manufacturers have got it completely wrong here, competing with the so-called hardware shortcomings, and not playing to the user capability shortcomings. They could differentiate themselves rather than, what it looks like they are doing, playing right into Apple's hands looking like Can We Play Too?

I go with you on this one.
I was going to write a post on HTC desire vs IPhone since I have both.
Honestly it would be a very difficult article to write. Both devices are impressive, and both have different pros and cons.
Both devices have solved the problem of not being "mouse centric". Android has taken a lot of apple's features and improved them.

I was talking to my german neighbor while he was here. He is a very intelligent man, but with little computer knowledge. His number #1 bitch about the ipod ....
He borrowed his daughter's ipod. He wanted to copy some of his own songs on it. First he could not use a standard USB cable. So he found his daughter's ipod cable. The he hooked it up to his computer. He then found he could not copy songs over because you can not mount the device without apple's retarded software installed. My bitch is similar. My charging cable for iphone broke. I have to find an apple store to get a new one and shell out $12. WTF did they not use a standard USB cable ? Luckily my wife's ipod cable fits my iphone or I would be fucked.

The issue's you brought up. Android beats iphone/ipad hands down.
Biggie device is locked to carrier. You travel to asia where you get SIM cards, your apple device is useless.
I go to singapore with my android device, i buy a new SIM for $2, I am off to the races.
Basically all of those issues are caused by iphone OS tying the developers hands.
On android you can make "interface widgets" the "clock/temperature" widget it ships with is an example.
When you connect to the internet it updates it's status. You could make other widgets like a stock widget, etc.
It uses a custom version of a Java VM. This means that applications when they are installed by "android market", it can alert the user what types of API it needs.
ie : ability to modify contents of SD card, network access, ability to send SMS, etc.
Also as a developer you can create "services". This increases the types of apps that can be created.
You have lost your android. It has a locate android service on it. You SMS the service a special code. It will then turn on GPS and send an SMS back with its location.
The ability to install 3rd party players for video and audio, what ever type of messanger you want etc. So you can play wierd audio formats like APE,FLAC etc.
I forgot that you can make low level device drivers, so you can access video/audio directly. This is very important for action games etc.

I am using another analogy, analogies are not perfect.
The iphone/ipad vs the android family is like the "game console" vs "PC" battle of the past.
Apple is going to take a big hit when power users start switching over to android devices.
Probably a lot of iphone/ipad users just got the device because at the time it was the only device.
The other 50% of iphone/ipad users will probably stay loyal to apple. Like the game console, it keeps the user safe. Easy for them to use etc.
And as more users switch to "smart devices" apple will continue to get this crowd.
Also with more competition, apple will not be able to charge high prices like they did in the past.
HTC desire is cheaper, with more features.

When my iphone finally dies. I probably will not replace it with another apple product. But with another android device.
If there was a "dual sim" android device that would really rock.
Not because IPhone sucks, but because it does not fit my needs as well as an android device does.
But like the "game console" I can see where lots of people are happy with their IPhone/IPad.
Anyway my 2 pesos.

[daviator]

My 1¢ worth:  You may be right that the "power users" will switch to Android.  But I think you overestimate the number of power users relative to the rest of the population.  I don't think the "power users" are really Apple's target market.  And some of us might still prefer an appliance that is easy to use and "safe" to the complexity and potential for issues of a device that is more "open."

[kurdt]

My 1¢ worth:  You may be right that the "power users" will switch to Android.  But I think you overestimate the number of power users relative to the rest of the population.  I don't think the "power users" are really Apple's target market.  And some of us might still prefer an appliance that is easy to use and "safe" to the complexity and potential for issues of a device that is more "open."

I agree with you on this. In my opinion Android is like Windows or Linux trying to please everybody with every little feature you could want and iOS is more like OSX, setting user experience over features. Personally I have experienced both worlds and I enjoy OSX/iOS world much more. You have to understand that there's a fundamental difference between Apple's way of doing software and companies like Google & MS. Google & MS & Linux view hardware as something that user must be able to use in every way possible however they want to use it. Apple seems to think hardware only as something that gives software ability to do something but it's never the main goal. So the function over form saying hits the spot perfectly. It's pretty much a personal preference if you want to put hardware capabilities over software capabilities. My thinking is that hardware is always only as good as the software running it so I guess that's why I don't obsess over specs and I focus only on how the software works & feels.

I think nop's game console analogy is a good one but if that's true, way more people are buying game consoles than gaming PCs.

[perkiset]

The notion that "Android beats iPhone hands down" is, to me, a very personal and subjective assertion. Like what Kurdt is saying, different M.O.s for different folks. And even the words "power users" is somewhat of an anachronism and relatively misused anymore.

I am about as "power user" as it gets. Yet my preference is the Apple experience. Note that this brings with it both positives and negatives that I acknowledge and buy into. At the end of the day, I think we'll see somewhere in the 50-50 zone, Android to iOS in the future. This of course from the very limited telescope of today's tech - tomorrow may bring something that swings the scales wildly one way or the other.

For me, when I need real power, I use my notebook. My 'pad is emminently powerful, but it is not the replacement for everything in my work life. Just today, for example, I will need to go do some serial connected console work on HP Procurve switches ... Definitely outside the realm of my pad. Perhaps they will build a USB to Serial connector that works for an android pad (like I have for my Mac). Cool. But that one extra hardware feature does not take precedence over my other daily activities on the pad. When I wake up in the morning and reach over for my connection device, i don't want a serial connection. I want my data-friend with my cuppajoe. For me, at least, Apple has really nailed that experience and it's difficult to imagine a set of hardware attributes beatingt he very subjective notion of my experience.     

<edit: minor typos, fucking iPad LOL />

[daviator]

I agree with the last two posts.  I specifically used the word "appliance" in my last posting, when referring to smartphones, because I believe that's what most people want this device to be.  They want it to be easy to use, versatile, and most of all, safe and reliable. 

There is certainly a market of very tech-savvy individuals who want their phone to be infinitely customizable and don't care about the complexity or potential security risks that come along for the ride.  But it's a small market, relatively speaking, and as Ed points out, even those of us who are very technology-savvy and would be considered "power users" (not my favorite term either) by any definition—not all of us want or need to make that tradeoff of simplicity and safety for additional programmability.  And for those that do, there's a middle ground, albeit unauthorized, of cracking or jailbreaking a device.

I'm glad that both kinds of devices will be available, but I'd put my money on appliance-like devices over "power-user" devices.  Time will tell who is right.   

[nop_90]

I made a typo in my previous post.
I should have wrote "In the issues you brought up, android beats iphone hands down".

a very personal and subjective assertion.

because I believe that's what most people want this device to be.  They want it to be easy to use, versatile, and most of all, safe and reliable. 

Different visions.

[kurdt]

I'm glad that both kinds of devices will be available, but I'd put my money on appliance-like devices over "power-user" devices.  Time will tell who is right.   

Any specific reason why one of them has to be wrong in the first place?

Same thing is with cars.. some people just prefer to drive cheap small city cars that look like a vacuum cleaner just to get from a to b and other people want to spend ridiculous amounts of extra money just to drive a car they feel good in (whether it's an ego thing or being as comfortable as possible while driving a lot). There's existing market for both and unless something really radical happens, there always will be a market for both type of cars. Just like with home computers, there will always be people who want to play with the hardware and there will always be people who just want to get shit done in the digital world.

[perkiset]

I actually know someone that LOVES minivans. F'reals. adores them. Looks, functionality, loves driving them.

If that isn't an endorsement for "different strokes" man I don't know what is.

[daviator]

Actually, I kinda misspoke.  I agree that there's no "right" or "wrong" about the two types of platforms.  What I meant was that there was an implication that most users would prefer an "open" Android-like platform as opposed to a closed iPhone-like platform.  I'm not convinced that will ultimately prove to be true.  But we won't really know the answer any time soon, particularly when the iPhone is not available to customers of all the wireless phone companies. 

[perkiset]

I think it will be very difficult to assign the source of a person's preference to the openness of platform. Most people I know making a decision about Apple or (other) has nothing to do with it. Neither do they know what it means, or care, or would know how to do anything with it if they did.

I believe that, particularly with the notion of appliance computing, it's absolutely about the user features of the appliance. Not RAM or speed numbers or anything. Of course those things play in if THATS what people want, but most people want to easily get to their email. Or the web. That's about it. If HTC does a better job than Apple, they'll win the sale. Since Android is somewhat amorphous and faceless until a manufacturer puts (their) face on it, it's not even Android vs. iOS - except to us geeks in here for which such things as openness makes a difference.

Or not LOL.   

[nop_90]

I think it will be very difficult to assign the source of a person's preference to the openness of platform. Most people I know making a decision about Apple or (other) has nothing to do with it. Neither do they know what it means, or care, or would know how to do anything with it if they did.

I believe that, particularly with the notion of appliance computing, it's absolutely about the user features of the appliance. Not RAM or speed numbers or anything. Of course those things play in if THATS what people want, but most people want to easily get to their email. Or the web. That's about it. If HTC does a better job than Apple, they'll win the sale. Since Android is somewhat amorphous and faceless until a manufacturer puts (their) face on it, it's not even Android vs. iOS - except to us geeks in here for which such things as openness makes a difference.

Open might have not been the best word to use. In this case because Android is open with its API, you can make many more different types of apps. As in you can make widgets,services etc. Also you can configure it in more types of ways. So you can put a widget on the home screen. This widget can be a standard clock, weather app, news widget,stock widget etc. So you can customize the device more.

I tried to find iphones sales by country. From what I can see 60%+ of iphone sales world wide are in USA (50%),Canada,Britain and Germany. When you read articles like IPhone sales in Japan increased 350%, when amount of users increased from 10 to 35 ......

Americans generally speaking are in a "rush". So something you can pull out of the box, get it running will appeal to them. From a world perspective I see markets of all things getting more splintered.

So with android, a company could lock it down, make it look almost identical to apple stuff.

@daviator
Both android and iphone are applicance like devices . Just how the device is used
In USA you are not going to watch TV on your cellphone, while texting, while your kid is riding on the handlebars of your motorbike.
And zipping down the road and passing other cars. Ohhh and none of you are wearing helmets of course. Even though all new motorcycles are now sold with a helmet. You leave that at home.

Really bad accident the other day right in front of me. The dude lost control of his motorbike, and flew off it. He was still going pretty quick maybe 30 kph. He literally flew over the handlebars and his forehead smashed into the road. It looked like he was diving into the road. His head was cut open really bad, blood all over the place. He was drunk ofcourse, not wearing a helmet. I had the driver threw him in the jeep and take him to hospital. I was positive he would be brain damaged, a concusion at least, or maybe DOA. The guy woke up in the hospital 2 hours later. They did xrays of his skull, did brain scans etc. Fuker perfectly fine. Only complaint he has was he did not want to stay in hospital, and that he was missing the next party. The hospital forced him to stay overnight for observation.

Obviously if the guy had been watching TV and texting on his cellphone while driving,the accident would not have happened. I think he got distracted by the road .

[nop_90]

Back to the topic.
M$ tablet looks like a total POS.
IPad, Android or some other OS is going to get market share.
Ballmer looks like he is on really crappy drugs. He should take the same type of drugs that Bill Gates or Steve Jobs take.