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[isthisthingon]

They can't out cool Apple, but damn if they aren't trying to out "open" them: http://www.networkworld.com/news/2009/102809-microsoft-extends-windows-7-and.html?source=NWWNLE_nlt_daily_pm_2009-10-28

Sweet:

"Microsoft also is announcing an open source plug-in, called Windows Azure Tools for Eclipse, to give PHP developers more flexibility in developing Web applications for the Windows Azure cloud platform. The plug-in, available as a free download, features wizards and utilities for writing, debugging, and deploying PHP applications to Azure."

This reminded me of something that's always been a blend of love/hate with M$ for me.  It's been solidly in the hate column for quite some time but here's the deal for me.  Unlike Apple, Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company.  It's that crazy little thing I love to do and respect as a unique art form independent of hardware: 

- program software -

It's why Android is a gazillian times more interesting than anything iPhone to me - it's software, not some forced combination of hardware, software and blood sucking contract.  Apple doesn't even consider its software as anything other than a necessary, built-in, shrink-wrapped aspect of its elite experience.  Try to enjoy Apple software as, God forbid, "software" - without Apple hardware - and welcome so San Quentin.  But I digress yet again...

M$ may realize what Apple fails to.  Deal with the brain drain soon or the stupids will take over.  Where's the brain draining to?  Why open source of course!  M$ in its desperate attempt to secure its future without locking the world into some unneeded OS may pass Apple up in the shift to open, free, and cloud.  Apple is apparently way behind in these areas but who knows what secret plans Jobs has up his sleeve.  Not that one - that's just an IV

But based on history, Jobs will open up every last line of code at Apple before allowing M$ to win the battle for the brains.  But I wouldn't wait too long if I was him

[kurdt]

Although the company has at times been viewed as the commercial opposite of the open source movement, the company's latest gestures to the open source community show Microsoft is willing to make moves that can assist open source devotees build products that rely on Microsoft's products.

I doubt many people know that Microsoft has their own open-source department which sole job is to produce open-source related stuff.

[nop_90]

This reminded me of something that's always been a blend of love/hate with M$ for me.  It's been solidly in the hate column for quite some time but here's the deal for me.  Unlike Apple, Microsoft is a SOFTWARE company.  It's that crazy little thing I love to do and respect as a unique art form independent of hardware: 

 
So true. Comparing apple and MS is like trying to compare Boeing and Ford.

The open source part of MS is very interesting.
They have ironpython, ironruby along with various other exotic languages that run on .net.

I don't love or hate MS. I used to hate them when i was young.
Now I respect them in the sense that you respect them. In the sense that u respect animals like rats,sharks, cockroaches 

The way they went about destroying various companies like Corel etc was brilliant.
Even the way they managed to destroy sun with java.

[isthisthingon]

The way they went about destroying various companies like Corel etc was brilliant.

In a Hannibal Lecter sort of way, yes.  In truth M$ has been far better than Apple in the business department.  Otherwise we'd all be talking about the latest Mac7 OS release that ran on EVERY damn wintel box on the planet

M$ would have some niche market boasting of how "cool" they were and Mac would simply mock them, as an insignificant decimal point of their total revenue.

[perkiset]

It's why Android is a gazillian times more interesting than anything iPhone to me - it's software, not some forced combination of hardware, software and blood sucking contract.  Apple doesn't even consider its software as anything other than a necessary, built-in, shrink-wrapped aspect of its elite experience.  Try to enjoy Apple software as, God forbid, "software" - without Apple hardware - and welcome so San Quentin.  But I digress yet again...

So, you're interested in the framework, but no phones built on top of it, right? Because they'll all have contracts, they'll all have specific hardware with capabilities that you'll have to custom write to. You just hate Apple so bad 

[nop_90]

In a Hannibal Lecter sort of way, yes.  In truth M$ has been far better than Apple in the business department.  Otherwise we'd all be talking about the latest Mac7 OS release that ran on EVERY damn wintel box on the planet

M$ out smarted Apple when it came to the origional windoze. For 2 years M$ tied up apple with a contract so they could use Apple windows. But the contract to was just to delay Apple so the could not go to market. Meanwhile M$ was stealing apple shit so they could make thier own crappy version.

"Cool" does not win.
The Tiger 1 and Tiger 2 tanks of WW2 where cool. The design of the Tiger 2 was years ahead of any WW2 tank.
Stick a pic of a Tiger 2 next to the modern Leopard 2 tank and they look very similar.

Take a look at a T34 russian tank.
Fuking ugly POS. Like all russian tanks all operators had to be 5" and under. So kind of user unfriendly 
But the T34 kiked the German ass at the battle of kirsk.

Fuking M$ always attacks with a 2 prong attack (like any great general).
So on one prong it appears they are losing. You chase the weaker prong. Then they slam you up the ass.
The analogy of Hannibal Lector is a good one.
To be a good general, On the prong that is the "weak" you know that men will be dying and have no chance to win.
It takes a someone with a "Hannibal Lector" streak in them to do that.

[perkiset]

In truth M$ has been far better than Apple in the business department.

They were absolutely better and navigated the then-newborn personal computer industry with a prescience and skill that pays them off still to this day. It's arguable, that they were perhaps the best surfers of a new market that the world has ever seen.

I think it's also fair to say that Apple has had one of the best turnarounds of all time... essentially down and out, no buzz, no real future - they've done extraordinarily well in the last 10 years. I think they may be the best 30 year old overnight sensation the world's ever seen 

[isthisthingon]

So, you're interested in the framework, but no phones built on top of it, right? Because they'll all have contracts  , they'll all have specific hardware with capabilities that you'll have to custom write to. You just hate Apple so bad    

NET10

Pre-pay that is. Texas Tea.  I know I know, buying a banana is buying a contract.  We just disagree on that point.  But haven't we worked through this before??  Tell me I have to purchase bananas for the next 3 years through the same vendor, or else starve to death, and bananas would be just as evil.  Well the starve to death part is extreme, but since this point is so hard for people to understand I'm making it extreme - to show texture. 

Do you really, honestly, truly believe that a coin operated pay phone is the same contract as a 2-3 year lock-in with AT&T?  How about buying 300 minutes up front and using them whenever you wish?  For $29 you can have this plus a new friggin phone every day if you want.  My phone has plenty of features.  It even browses the Internet   The "time" factor is accelerated when browsing the Internet since it's more expensive for NET10 to provide.  But in any case my pre-purchase minutes are constantly known to me so you wind up with... (did I say wait for it??)

No contract, no captivity, no evil.

Of course when you pay up front for 10 minutes of airtime that 10 minutes is part of a "contract."  But really man, it's already bought and you simply own them.  10 bananas perks.... 10 bananas    Hey BTW where's the monkey emoticon??

Take a look at a T34 russian tank.

Used to be a big tank buff as a kid.  T34s fucking rocked the house.  The German Tiger tanks were seriously the coolest, after the Panthers IMO.  Shermans were POS wannabes.  They were upgraded to try to compete with the German technology into Pershings (same engine/transmission) just in time for the end of WWII.  But we digress

I think it's also fair to say that Apple has had one of the best turnarounds of all time

Thanks in part to Microsoft   MacOffice anyone??  Another POS but hey, it saved Apple from possible extinction.  That aside I agree with you.  Personally I think they were lost at sea until Jobs came back

[perkiset]

Ah... and now I see where your no contracts no evil bit comes from.

You're right, we do disagree on this. The challenge is how to make a profit in a game where everyone is racing towards zero. If the commodity (minutes) just keeps getting cheaper, so there's little room for enough margin to develop new technology. There'd be no blackberries if there weren't subsidies. The subsidies need to be paid back over time, from the profit of the phone contract. The contract ensures that you'll be around long enough for them to actually make a profit.

Note that they can exist because they are using phones from which the development costs have already been amortized out ... so they are really cheap. Fine. But you're not going to see a top of the line, front edge phone with them. And you certainly would not be able to have a new one every month. This business model simple takes advantage of yesterday's tech, for which there is no market from people like me.

It's not evil meng, it's simple business.

[nop_90]

You're right, we do disagree on this. The challenge is how to make a profit in a game where everyone is racing towards zero.
If the commodity (minutes) just keeps getting cheaper, so there's little room for enough margin to develop new technology.

It's not evil meng, it's simple business.

Basically the is the question that is partially answered in Wired's "Free" book.

It is pretty hard to buy a "locked" phone in PH. The only telecom i think that sells locked phones is Globe.
Again it is what the consumer is willing to buy.

Granted PH has a lot smaller land area then USA, but on the other hand it is a lot poorer country.
But the various cell companies here are constantly pushing new 3G crap etc.

Also cell companies both globe and smart are getting into remitances (big $$$ in that in PH).
So bread winner who works in Manila is able to send back $$$ to his family in Buttfuk Cebu .
Unlike western union they are cheaper, much more convinient, and they charge like 5-10% regardless how small ammount is.
Again an example of a service that uses present infra structure, and just makes company profit.

For the last 6 years here.
Services like text the movie theatre, u get an auto-reply what is showing.
There is some sort of "dating match making" thingie u can do on ur cell (I have no idea how it works it all in tagalog).

To send $$$ for example u need a Globe SIM card or SMART.
So instead of forcing user into a contract, users use the service that suits thier needs and become loyal.

In Metro Manila Globe is much better then SMART.
But SMART is better in most of the rural areas.