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Author Topic: Google's MapReduce patent is effective as of today, gulp  (Read 3087 times)
isthisthingon
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« on: January 19, 2010, 01:36:15 PM »

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PALL&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsrchnum.htm&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=7,650,331.PN.&OS=PN/7,650,331&RS=PN/7,650,331

Although I'd give Google just as much credit as I would Apple or Microsoft for great contributions to technology, until today I had a greater respect for Google's MapReduce contribution than anything Apple and Microsoft have done since they keep their source closed and leverage IP laws openly and to the fullest extent of the law. 

But this really sucks out loud.  Google has been trying to put a nasty patent hoop around MapReduce since 2004 while openly encouraging the world to embrace it.  Think about this for a second:

Hadoop

Even if Google doesn't proactively leverage this patent, it puts an emergency fuse in between Google and financial failure since all they now have to do is pull the trigger and the legal system (patent laws) will grant them tremendous power to charge those who use this technology.  That means they can choose to leverage this if anyone happens to... um... do really well with it, for example.  Go after those with money to grab.  Kind of feels like Palm going after Apple doesn't it?  Only until after Apple became so successful did Palm pull this trigger.  Existing patent laws suck so hard it hurts 

And for Google to secure a patent after the world has embraced this "open" approach to handling massive amounts of data is in my opinion, wait for it Cache.....

EVIL

The least they could have done is made a "Patent Pending" message clear for all of those who embraced it.  But why do that?  That would be doing the opposite of evil and also harming their shareholders.  Their best, smartest and most predictable move is to get the maximum amount of support for their technology and then sink their teeth into the much larger net thrown over the world.

And to end my rant.  This is precisely the reason that the concept of Copyleft is so important and yet not understood.  No one has the time, interest or sufficient memory to string all of these events together to realize how they've been duped.  The only answer is to make the act of attempting to "copyright" something (or patent something others already use, etc.) - illegal.

EDIT: Copyleft - http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/copyleft.html/view?searchterm=copyleft
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 01:41:36 PM by isthisthingon » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 01:47:38 PM »

Hmm, it's really absurd that you can patent already in use technologies. I remember reading some stuff that you can't patent something that's been publicly in use over a year but I guess they found a loophole. But yeah, Google has become just like Microsoft. There's just no way around it.
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« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 04:06:43 PM »

But yeah, Google has become just like Microsoft. There's just no way around it.
How innocent and niave people have become still amazes me Smiley
A company is created to generate profit. Google is generating profit.
I guess google must becoming very successful since they are now like M$  ROFLMAO
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 07:22:01 PM »

>Hmm, it's really absurd that you can patent already in use technologies.

Totally.  It's um..... a retroactive invention  Roll Eyes

>A company is created to generate profit. Google is generating profit.

Ah ha!  Here's where the real deal comes into play and why market fundamentalists, IP extremists and those who seek to artificially "own" things really f things up.  Of course Google is going after profits.  It's our fault for allowing these ridiculous laws to continue and even increase in scope and power.  Count on the Google's and Microsofts of the world to seek profit before saving lives - every time.  And while you're at it, reshape the profit picture so that their obvious goal of seeking profit will not RF the rest of the players in the game.

Put a bounty on someone's head and they may just lose it.  Take the profit out of the killing and it's far less likely to happen.

Why do we allow these terrible patent laws to continue and even increase in scope, killing helpless and sick people around the world as a result??  Ask the huge players, lobbyists and benefactors that be.  They really want to keep their monopolies on things like AIDS meds because that increases their profits - directly at the expense of people who die because of it.  Same type of game but in Google's case it's just to squash out competitors and maximize future profits for them.  It just gets really damn ugly, and really damn obvious how messed up this system really is when you realize that these monsters will tacitly condone murder to lock in their mini-monopolies. 

In fact it's one of the reasons big business just loves the pharmaceutical industry.  It's got a perfectly captive audience  Devilish
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perkiset
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« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 10:05:16 PM »

Hmm, it's really absurd that you can patent already in use technologies.
If they had a patent pending, then current use is all within their scope. Or, if they can prove that they really thought of it first, and nobody contests it, they then can still have it.

Pretty twisted.
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« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 10:25:05 PM »

there are some very confusing and complicated "prior use" laws that i think often apply in situations like this. But the timeline starts from when they first tried to patent it i think. So anyone using after that, is able to be pursued for licensing.

Though, i am sure they can go after the prior use folks too, just harder to do if I remember correctly from that insanely boring college class 15 years ago... lol
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« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 10:27:35 PM »

@isthisthingon
It just gets really damn ugly, and really damn obvious how messed up this system really is when you realize that these monsters will tacitly condone murder to lock in their mini-monopolies.

Nothing new under the sun  ROFLMAO

Kinda like when the settlers first came to america. Unfortunately the land was occupied by other people. Kinda a minor technicality. But then some great mind said well if the present people do not actually fence the land then it does not really belong to them. So that way the white people could kill all the non-white people. Then some other smart guy figured out a way to twist words, so that by wiping out the native people, they where actually doing them a favor. Systematically exterminated more people then Stalin and Hitler combined, while doing God's work  ROFLMAO I like how history is revised. No we did not kill as more people then Stalin and Hitler. Or no it was not as bad when we killed them because we did not make them into soap afterwards or some rubbish. All very comical Smiley

Me I like good honest people like Henry Morgan. When I biographer wrote an account of his life, detailing his piracy, tortue, extorsion,raping,plundering,killing etc. Henry Morgan sued the publisher for stating the he was an "indentured servant" when he arrived in the new world. Henry Morgan was then rewarded 200 pounds sterling. In subsequent publication of said book, they where allowed to print all of Morgan's wrong doings, just as long as they did not say he was a former servant Smiley.

But now days people like to lie to themselves. Dropping naplam on women and kids and burning them alive is "collateral" damage. If only those infidels would accept "american values" and sell USA cheap oil so I can drive around my gas guzzling SUV.

Hmmm i need to look for some people to "liberate" ........
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perkiset
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« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 10:34:01 PM »

Ouch, FFS Nop. First a shower, then off to slit my wrists.

The only real consolation is that we Americans are not the only assholes in the world.
Such consolation as it is: if we didn't try to claim the moral high ground I'd prolly not feel so dirty.
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« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 10:59:11 PM »

But yeah, Google has become just like Microsoft. There's just no way around it.
How innocent and niave people have become still amazes me Smiley
A company is created to generate profit. Google is generating profit.
I guess google must becoming very successful since they are now like M$  ROFLMAO
Naah, I'm all for companies generating profit.. it's kinda why they were created in the first place. But just like ITTO says, it becomes a problem when company makes a lot of damage because of the profts. Most of the big websites right now are running something, if not everything on Hadoop (http://wiki.apache.org/hadoop/PoweredBy). So basically with this patent Google can cause legal troubles to any one of them. However, this shouldn't affect sites that are using only HDFS right?

Somebody in Slashdot said already that "patent's strength is tested in court". I think Google will have hard time to convince judge on their side because Cloudera guys said that when Hadoop started Google was asked and they gave their blessing. So at least to me it sounds pretty damn unfair if Google can now start extracting licensing fees from the other big players. But life's unfair. I'll take a shower with Perk and join the wrist slitting session.
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« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 11:12:26 PM »

Don't slit ur wrists, who will look after the board  ROFLMAO
(pretends concern about perks, while in reality just concerned about board lol Smiley)
The only real consolation is that we Americans are not the only assholes in the world.
Such consolation as it is: if we didn't try to claim the moral high ground I'd prolly not feel so dirty.
Claiming moral high ground is human nature and not unique to Americans Smiley
I have reached the conclusion that the majority of the population enjoys living in a self created delusion Smiley.

Also it is interesting how people have a tendency to bond to a "group".
I don't think perks actually was going around killing people Smiley

I think the problem in life is we have a tendency to make people/groups into saints or demons, when they are somewhere in between.

I just finished reading a book about John D. Rockerfeller. "Titan: The Life of John D. Rockefeller, Sr."
I think one of the nicest things about the book was that it tried to give a "fair" account of Rockefeller.
Here was a man who bent every law possible to get ahead. Was completely ruthless.
And yet at the same time, here was a man who even when he was very young enjoyed helping people.
For example long before he even became rich, he bought a person out of slavery. He donated a lot of his money (this way before he became rich). Also he was a self made man. Who had a strong work ethic. Who do not like to spend money extravagantly. His donations to schools, medicine etc still affect the world today.

Problem in life is that often when you come to a fork in the road. The choice is not "good" vs "evil", the choice is "Evil A" vs "Evil B". Evil A often might appear to be less evil then Evil B, but maybe later on hindsight will show Evil A is much worse then Evil B Smiley. So no matter which you choose u are fuked Smiley.

If there is a God, i suspect he must have a twisted sense of humor Smiley. Or maybe he is like the ancient chinese gods, who drink lots, play practical jokes, sometimes when they are supposed to be doing something they fall asleep lol
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #10 on: January 20, 2010, 03:14:02 PM »

From the Apache Foundation email list:

Quote
On Wed, Jan 20, 2010 at 8:07 PM, Something Something <mailinglists19@gmail.com> wrote:
> Here's some more info:
>
> http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2010/01/googles-mapreduce-pate
> nt-what-does-it-mean-for-hadoop.ars
>
> It will be nice to get some official announcement from Apache Hadoop
> team regarding future of Hadoop.
>
> - A very scared Hadoop Fan Sad

don't worry
every substantial application has a very large probability of patent infringement
sooner or later, software patents will have to be abolished
- robert

Would be nice  Applause
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 03:25:44 PM »

http://gigaom.com/2010/01/19/why-hadoop-users-shouldnt-fear-googles-new-mapreduce-patent/

Quote
Google, nearly six years since it first applied for it, has finally received a patent for its MapReduce parallel programming model. The question now is how this will affect the various products and projects that utilize MapReduce.

If Google is feeling litigious, every database vendor leveraging MapReduce capabilities – a list that includes Aster Data Systems, Greenplum and Teradata — could be in trouble, as could Apache’s MapReduce-inspired Hadoop project. Hadoop is a critical piece of Yahoo’s web infrastructure, is the basis of Cloudera’s business model, and is the foundation of products like Amazon’s Elastic MapReduce and IBM’s M2 data-processing platform.

It would seem to be suicide for Google to even attempt to leverage this.  I just don't like the implications though 
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nop_90
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« Reply #12 on: January 20, 2010, 03:49:01 PM »

It would seem to be suicide for Google to even attempt to leverage this.  I just don't like the implications though 
It would be a rerun of the compuserve GIF patent fiasco.
Except with more fallout Smiley

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isthisthingon
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« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 11:58:59 AM »

It would seem to be suicide for Google to even attempt to leverage this.  I just don't like the implications though 
It would be a rerun of the compuserve GIF patent fiasco.
Except with more fallout Smiley



 ROFLMAO  More fallout than Compuserve's fate?  Being dead and having basically an embarrassing legacy.  Hard to imagine more fallout nop Wink
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