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Author Topic: Continuous Integration  (Read 1964 times)
isthisthingon
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« on: March 20, 2010, 07:35:19 PM »

I was going to post a callback message for perks but CI is something for everyone (per our conversation).  I'd recommend staring at the attached PDF for a long time and research anything that you don't understand or have never heard of before.  The art of continuous integration is insanely cool to contemplate.  It requires near mastery of so many disciplines to architect properly that I believe most people will never even see it in action.  Frankly even if they did they probably wouldn't know it. 

Imagine the concept of "code complete" is gone forever and the only thing that stays the same about any architecture is the fact that it is eternally changing.  Software becomes pure flow.  There is no spoon.

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* elements_of_ci_USLetter.pdf (131.26 KB - downloaded 129 times.)
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kurdt
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« Reply #1 on: March 21, 2010, 01:27:51 AM »

Hate to break it to you but this is the way many of us "younger" developers see the whole thing. "Insane" is the only way to work when actually working on something important. I think I developed it from reading all about kaizen philosophy. I have actually started recently to play with the idea of creating automated workflow optimizer tool that has multiple different modifying tools at its disposal and it constantly looks for ways to improve the flow and still come up with accurate, wanted results. Of course the system is a bit more complex than that but that's the idea. It's all about continuos improvement in time and cost which always leads to "Insane" so why not start from there and go beyond? It's just boring to believe what your elders say and believe in the "raise your hand if you have questions" mentality. Figure it out yourself.

When you design a system that should handle every human being in the world (internet has now 25% penetration to human population), you have to start really think differently than how things were done before.
« Last Edit: March 21, 2010, 01:29:58 AM by kurdt » Logged

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isthisthingon
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« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2010, 02:41:55 AM »

>Hate to break it to you but this is the way many of us "younger" developers see the whole thing

Assuming you're under 40, I'd remove the quotes from "younger."  Then I'd like to offer you a highly suspect and dubious Applause for already knowing what's taken me pints of blood and decades to conceptually grasp.

It's not that I don't trust you.  It's just that the only five nines I've experienced in relationship to CI is the percentage of bullshit and false assertions I've found coming from those who claim to understand and live in the CI world.  And I'm completely a believer that the younger generation sees flow as natural and necessary while the waterfall-minded, colostomy bag seniors feel that nothing has value unless it can be frozen and evaluated in some artificial, static state of iconic representation of functionality. 

So please feel free to "break it" to me to your teenage heart's content, sir kurdt Smiley
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« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2010, 03:08:42 AM »

Assuming you're under 40, I'd remove the quotes from "younger."  Then I'd like to offer you a highly suspect and dubious Applause for already knowing what's taken me pints of blood and decades to conceptually grasp.

It's not that I don't trust you.  It's just that the only five nines I've experienced in relationship to CI is the percentage of bullshit and false assertions I've found coming from those who claim to understand and live in the CI world.  And I'm completely a believer that the younger generation sees flow as natural and necessary while the waterfall-minded, colostomy bag seniors feel that nothing has value unless it can be frozen and evaluated in some artificial, static state of iconic representation of functionality.
I'm slightly under 40 so as you wish, I'm younger. But you are seeing this from your point of view. Your strength is the experience you have gathered. My strenght is the built-in understanding of the ideology from the start. That makes us different yet both are important. You will probably not make as many mistakes as I will but you'll not also see all the possibilities because your thinking is clouded by all the things you have learned before.

If you are over 40, it's a fact that you have developed in a totally different world than where I have. I became "adult" in the era when companies finally started to use computers in masses and launching new products more rapidly. So that's all I know. New thing after new thing after new thing. And I never had to fight my way to get software I wanted. Your generation already walked that road and now I'm about to do my part. Your generation made it possible for us to have computers in our every day life. What your generation misses and what you can see in the web right now is the true understand of how web can be used to improve life on earth. You see everything with your older eyes where you match everything against what's been done before and what has worked. There's nothing wrong with that but it creates a fundamental difference in the way we see the future. You see future as continuum of your life. We see future as continuum of our lives. Now you see that because you developed in a different era, you have totally different past experiences of the world than me. I believe we can see the future in the same way but it takes constant effort from your part to forget your past and look the world from our point of view and constant effort from us to forget what you have taught us. So basically our biggest "drag" as evolving species is the beliefs our elders taught us when we were in a stage where we didn't think for ourselves. Some of the stuff is important facts of life like basics of mathematics, survival and so on but most of the stuff is just something you believe to be true because you were once taught that it's like that. Majority of the people will live their whole life based on those beliefs and rules. If we would really challenge everything and think for ourselves, we would have demolished our societies long time ago and rebuilt them. To verify this you just have to look at the financial & political news. Something is clearly not working and all people are trying to do is to keep the status quo by fixing the broken system so that it stays together.

I plan to take the scenic route and walk with my own two feets.

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So please feel free to "break it" to me to your teenage heart's content, sir kurdt Smiley
There you go, grandpa ITTO Smiley
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2010, 04:05:31 PM »

I'm actually 40.

>Your strength is the experience you have gathered.

I like to think it's my abs and smile Smiley  Well not really, but I would prefer to see having an open mind that's constantly passionate about learning new things and changing any existing understandings as a result as more of a strength than have great levels of experience.  I've discarded so many elements of experience that no longer apply in the world that I'm a much bigger fan of the reasons behind things than things themselves.

>I became "adult" in the era when companies finally started to use computers in masses and launching new products more rapidly. So that's all I know.

Me too.  I just happened to have this wicked smart older brother who taught me how to program in the 5'th grade.  Being a sad, speechless introvert until I was about 15 didn't hurt my IT life either.  Then working full time computer related jobs at 16 and onward pretty much made me the turbo geek that I am today.

Loved your last post btw.  Great stuff in there.  And regardless of how I may sound, I'm an agile head these days and no longer a waterfall player.  Empirical systems rule and the individual is the most important unit of society, not the rulers.
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« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2010, 11:54:26 PM »

I'm actually 40.Well not really, but I would prefer to see having an open mind that's constantly passionate about learning new things and changing any existing understandings as a result as more of a strength than have great levels of experience.  I've discarded so many elements of experience that no longer apply in the world that I'm a much bigger fan of the reasons behind things than things themselves.
When you stop learning, you might as well die. That's my philosophy. I can't understand people who go to schools and somehow after they are graduated they can just work and be. Maybe take some occasional training if the employer pays for it. I mean what the fuck, that's below animal level. Even animals are learning constantly new things about their surroundings and evolving in some ways. Not to mention animals are always curious about new things. People just seem to be awfully happy being machines. That's what really worries me. If that doesn't change and people just keep multiplying we will soon feel the fact that only thing that stays in the earth is evolution and we are no longer going to be part of it. If there's one war we will lose without any doubt, it's humans versus earth.

So after that off-topic, my point is that if you keep using your brain in ways that constantly challenges status quo, I believe you can do anything. It's just a neural network, learn how it works and operate it. It's as simple as that. All creative people are using their brains a lot differently than normal people. It's because they can access it differently. Some have ability to do it naturally, some use alcohol and drugs to initialize the connection. Nevertheless, it's the same brain we all have and it's a damn fucking shame that our education system is mastered the art of erasing any skills that are required to make that connection. That's why almost all truly revolutionary people are not the ones who went to schools. In my opinion it's a bad deal to trade imagination to fact knowledge. There's probably nothing in this world that I value more than my imagination and creativity. It makes it possible for me to have no job, do what I want which is create and soon start a project where I will give all I've got to make sure it succeeds because when it does, it will change the way we see internet and that's something I want to do in my short time here.

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Me too.  I just happened to have this wicked smart older brother who taught me how to program in the 5'th grade.  Being a sad, speechless introvert until I was about 15 didn't hurt my IT life either.  Then working full time computer related jobs at 16 and onward pretty much made me the turbo geek that I am today.
That's what your generation is.. turbo geeks and that's what made today possible. The funny thing is that in order to change the world and get computer to every home, you had to be a turbo geek to have the passion to take it beyond conventional limits. I'm little bit worried that it's not existing anymore because people don't see that we are in the beginning anymore when it couldn't be further from the truth. People actually see computers as something final when in reality it's just a prototype, a demo of how you can put electric charge in sand. Computers themselves are pointless and useless pieces of constant pain. What we are after is the output that comes from that machine but nobody wants the damn machine. It's been proven in studies that when people use current operating systems, same "brain parts" are being stimulated that have action when you are in physical pain. So my belief is that the first change people get to throw computers out and still get the same benefits, it's gonna happen fast. But this is what happens what today's society drives for... dulling happiness and sense of achievement about one's idleness. Not good in the long run, not good.

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And regardless of how I may sound, I'm an agile head these days and no longer a waterfall player.  Empirical systems rule and the individual is the most important unit of society, not the rulers.
Well, you'll get your change to prove yourself to yourself soon. Only worthless waste of skin denies that speech/writing is free and the real value of man is measured in actions.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #6 on: March 22, 2010, 12:26:15 AM »

“Belief is the death of intelligence. As soon as one believes a doctrine of any sort, or assumes certitude, one stops thinking about that aspect of existence.” - Robert Anton Wilson

I can't reply at length atm but great post kurdt.  Thank you.  The world seems filled with over simplifying, comfort seeking zombies who would eat their own children before acknowledging their leach-based existence of essential irrelevance.  And good luck on your project/company thing.  If you ever need anything or just wanted to have an NDA friendly brain storm let me know. 
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« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2010, 12:49:57 AM »

And good luck on your project/company thing.  If you ever need anything or just wanted to have an NDA friendly brain storm let me know.
Trust me, you'll hear the call. In fact everybody here will hear it. It's a funny thing that if this project doesn't get air under its wings, then everything you think is wrong in the internet is well deserved on your part. If I succeed it will not only change how corporations are viewed but it will also transform how we work as species towards less harmful existance in this universe.

I'm not worried about NDA. One of my beliefs is that if some other community or company thinks my idea is so good that they make their version of it, make it better than us and people actually think it's better, then I have already won. Somebody is going to make the future happen. If it's not you, then it's probably not going to be the way you want it to be. So only true thing to do is just make the future happen yourself. If somebody else executes my vision then I already got what I wanted. To me money is irrelevant, it's only means to the end.
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