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[kurdt]

Interesting post at Github. It really starts to look like there's no valid reason to use Flash anymore to anything. Only real use for Flash is to provide support for older browsers but I'm not sure if that's worth the hassle. All browsers include automatic updates so if user decides not to update, it's their problem and they are willingly choosing not to use pages that use newer features.

I know there isn't many designers here but what's your opinion? With all the improvements in JS regarding speed and with all the jQuery animation/graphic plugins, there really is very little reason to use Flash. JS is enabled in about 98% of all browsers so Flash has way less penetration. It's just a question of designing/planning habits I think. You might just want to keep in mind that if you choose Flash, you'll exclude Linux and iPad users. Flash support in Linux is horrible and iPad users won't be seeing Flash at all. And not to mention the problem with touch and Flash apps working via hovering cursor that doesn't exist with touch. Just think how many Flash video player has controls that only come up when you hover your mouse. Now how do you make this work with touch without introducing new stuff either developers have to do or users have to learn? And with SVG you'll get vector graphics finally that will scale up with the text and other elements. That means fully zoomable webpages without quality degrade in images that are used to built the page.

I guess the lesson is that start changing your thoughts about how to do design in the web...

[jammaster82]

I was kind  of thinking the same thing when i was reading
about HTML5....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5

 youtube already has an HTML5 supplicate of its site..

sheds a little light on the flashlessness of the ipad:

(from the wiki)

"The HTML5 editors are Ian Hickson of Google, Inc. and David Hyatt of Apple, Inc.[3]"

[jammaster82]

"HTML5 is the proposed next standard for HTML 4.01, XHTML 1.0 and DOM Level 2 HTML. It aims to reduce the need for proprietary plug-in-based rich internet application (RIA) technologies such as Adobe Flash, Microsoft Silverlight, Apache Pivot, and Sun JavaFX."

[perkiset]

The interesting thing to me is the push from the Flash lovers about denying a "web standard" - well, it's become a widely used web app, but it's really a closed-source, bound to Adobe mechanism.

I think it's time for it to lose some of it's control, and I think HTML5 is just the tool to do it.

Now, however, comes the big wait for all the pr0n guys to change their code. When they do, it's all over.

[jammaster82]

The interesting thing to me is the push from the Flash lovers about denying a "web standard" -

one standard instead of silverlight, flash and java fx... sounds better.

How many different sets of code semantics do you have to know on your current platform? 

php , javascript, css, .... the list getting shorter is a good thing IMO

[perkiset]

ABSOLUTELY. I have to deal with enough languages as it is, adding ActionScript to the list has always been a PIA.

And as a side note, I really don't like it. Klunky IDE, really easy to forget what you learned last week. Have tried several times to grok it deeply and failed miserably.

I'm quite happy to have Flash done and gone, frankly. And another side note, much of Flash's implementation has been about as lovable and pretty as the now-defunct BLINK attribute in HTML ... lots of boneheads that don't understand subtlety.

But of course, there's not much subtlety on my pr0n sites any way 

[nop_90]

A lot depends on IE 9.
It appears it will support html 5

Theoretically flash VM format has been opened.
Now that we have faster puters no need for flash.

[kurdt]

A lot depends on IE 9.
It appears it will support html 5

Yeah.. at the same time if IE9 doesn't support everything, it will be rough ride for Microsoft. Now that Win has browser selection box that informs users about other browsers it's not going to be long before people start changing in masses. Also it won't help that other browsers can offer visually more pleasing web.. just take a look at Webkit's 3D CSS support like -webkit-transform etc. It's just too bad that 99% of web designers are not imaginative enough to create something new. Instead those tricks will be raped, pillaged and labeled annoying as fuck like blinking text in the late 90s.

[jammaster82]

>introducing new stuff developers have to do

>99% of web designers not imaginitive enough

I wonder if some of them have the imagination
but no horsepower left over after coding in so
many different dialects all at once...

Most of the whole internet system will hopefully
slowly be built right.. i think it will take all the
baby boomers that cant figure out tivo to die
for anything REALLY cool and new to be financially
viable...

The race to the market itself has completely warped
the way it ended up..  Its like working on a car thats
never allowed to go to the garage...

but this is pretty much the largest group of the population
right now that are all retiring age:

http://4sp.in/36E

*warning this is one of the funniest videos i have seen . EVER

[nutballs]

lol

[isthisthingon]

HTML 5.0 marks the beginning of the eventual end for Flash.  However, Adobe was smart enough to get a gigantic pool of talented programmers using Flex for virtually all of their cool, slick web development.  And we all know what happens when a world filled with, for example, Java gurus continues to influence the investors.

Here's a nice post on the subject of Flash, Flex and how Apple factors in: http://www.phparch.com/2010/03/03/can-flex-save-flash/

Why Flex?

For this particular project, the client had given us complete freedom in choosing both frontend and backend technologies. For the latter, we chose PHP—it’s perfect for what, in the end, amounts to a simple data-manipulation system. The three obvious choices for the former—where the real heavy lifting of this project takes place—were JavaScript/HTML, Silverlight and Flash/Flex. I chose Flex because I felt that the tool, Flex Builder, would make a difference in the speed of development, which was important because the project was time sensitive. I knew the project could have been done in JavaScript/HTML (except possibly for the video), but the combination of my rusty JavaScipt skills along with the absence of a good tool like Flex Builder made the choice for me.  By the same token,  I have never worked with Silverlight and, while I would love to do a project with it, I didn’t have time on this project to learn a totally new language.

The point of the above preamble was to show that I feel that Flex and Flash are both still useful technologies. The question is, how much longer will Flash be useful and can Flex extend that useful lifetime?

Apple vs. Adobe

As I pointed in Let’s get all the facts on HTML5 whether you like Flash or not, you cannot deny the fact that it filled an important gap up till now as HTML, CSS and JavaScript just were not up to the task of rich UI and things like video.

No one has been beating the drum the anti-Flash drum more than Apple. With it’s top management reportedly claiming that Flash is buggy and performs poorly, Apple has allegedly denied Adobe access to the iPhone and iPad like a spoiled child protecting a favorite toy. If true, Apple’s attacks on Adobe are especially grievous since if Adobe had not been so supportive of Mac in the early days—producing top quality graphics tools for Mac first and giving Microsoft and Windows users the cold shoulder—Apple and the Mac platform would not be enjoying the loyalty of the graphic design community. It is disheartening that Apple seems willing to forget its friends when it’s convenient. Even when it’s pointed out than many of Apple’s arguments against Flash are specious at best, they continue to liken Flash to floppy disks.