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Author Topic: C# or PHP, trying to decide  (Read 4275 times)
nutballs
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« on: September 10, 2007, 09:29:11 AM »

I know there will be a lot of opinions on this, mostly leaning towards PHP, but I gotta talk out loud with a group that is better able to give a response than my wife... lol

I am a traditional ASP guy, however, being that ASP reached end of life cycle 4 years ago or more at this point, I am trying to decide on a new direction. For the most part, I don't really like coding anymore which is why I haven't bothered with a new language, but I do like the development process. Unfortunately coding is my lot in life at the moment, especially for my own projects/inventions. so... New language time.

Here is my list from a C# ASP.net point of view compared to PHP.
+Pays more if i need to become a working stiff. At least in AZ and most jobs I have researched.
+Higher probability of enterprise level projects.
+slightly higher acceptance by PHBs as a "real" language, because its microsoft.
+tiny mind shift to do compiled apps
-good user base and public support, but php is better i think by a bit.
+more "pros" i think. PHP seems to have an enormous number of 'hacks' that make everyone look bad.
+I know windows. I know it well. I am very well versed in security of it.
-windows patches and security issues
-more expensive servers
+fucking awesome IDE in my opinion, and 2008 is better. but you don't have to use an IDE (masochist)
-expensive IDE (or it is supposed to be, if you get my drift)
-I dont know about php, but asp.net has a huge set of objects build in. and the DOT notations get retardedly long. So much so that because of that alone, I am considering a shift. But i am guessing PHP has the same problem.
-the IDE. although its awesome, it can do so much for you that you lose a bit of control. Gridview is an example. Though again, you don't have to use any of the built in stuff.
+postbacks are handled virtually invisibly.
-postback data collisions in more complex multi-page apps.

Thats what I have for now. I would be interested to hear intelligent reasons why to go PHP or more of why to continue with .NET. It really boils down to longevity of the language, which Im sure they both will have, and MONEY. Money really is it. Though ease of development is important currently for my own projects, earning potential is very important as not only a current earner as a contractor/consultant, but also for the future in case shit goes downhill and I need a job.


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perkiset
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« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2007, 09:48:23 AM »

Hey NBs -

As an ex-compiled language guy I'd like the opportunity to be the PHP advocate. Perhaps we could get together and I can show you first hand the way I have it all, since I'm pretty damn optimized - prolly akin to the way you'd want things.

Gotta run right now, I'll contact later.

/p
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« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2007, 11:45:28 AM »

Personally im a PHP boy [and I bum C++ and the new orcas IDE - yes it bloody well rocks]
i could very easily learn c# to the point that i know php in about a week [given my background etc] however i dont, i like php, its nice, it makes me feel warm.

i cant really comment on the pros and cons between the two languages, but like c# with .net all i think about is bloat...and from what ive done in asp although a lot is done for you, some thing are more complicated.

but considering your a bh boy id suggest php is the way to go if for no other reason than the fact perk uses it [lol] no seriously there are tons of guys, on here and everywhere else, who can help, or who have had the same problem as you [will run into] and they use php, and youll get community support

i'd take a few days to play with each one see how you feel...then keep playing with what you like until youve found which one your gonna use!
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« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2007, 12:29:33 PM »

After our phone call I decided that I'd like to write a quick synopisis here so that others can see my points. I don't have it at the moment - I'll probably write it tonight... but my point will not be to talk about why PHP is better, but moreso why I think PHP is better for *you* and what it's strengths are. I'd really love to hear from ASP folks who will posit from the same place - we don't need another religeous language war, but a real discussion of strengths.

I'll weigh in later.

/p
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« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2007, 12:48:48 PM »

neither would be my personal choice so maybe i can give less biased advice.
you already know asp and windows and you don't like coding anymore.
go with c#.
the ide will generate half the code for you and the code completion makes the rest faster.
the auto generated code will be bloated but what you write doesn't have to be unless your
an oop nazi and you care about fancy design patterns. with php's new oo feautures it is
just as verbose as c# or java.
the only benefit to php is everyone here and everywhere else uses it.

edit:
also whats up with the $ and -> syntax? is all that shift keying necessary?
« Last Edit: September 10, 2007, 12:51:18 PM by arms » Logged
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« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2007, 03:22:07 PM »

lol arms. I was talking to perk about that shift key crap as well.

response.write
is far better than
response->write

$ is for vars right? GHEY.

though then again, in .net
something.something.something.morethings.20things.response.writ e IS GHEYER

After talking to Perk a bit, its actually not about the language. C# php asp whocares. just syntax. The questions was more about methodology. Ironically, we are reverse copies it sounds like. I have bee doing loosely structured programming in a procedural methodology. He was doing OOP. He then changed to a procedural methodology, though obviously kept ALOT of the  OOP aspects. I was now thinking of switching to OOP. Since .net requires everything to be in a class, it would make sense. However, I realized this might be dumb for me, since I really can stand the idea of having to instantiate an object just so I convert an IP to an INT as an example. Thats stupid. I just want a global function that i can call when I need it. I know the argument could be to make a helper class that contains my functions, and always instantiate it in a page that uses any of those functions, but that also seems stupid.

I had decided to go with .NET a few weeks ago, but when I started digging into it, I noticed a few problems.
The biggest one, which I didnt realize fully until talking it out with perk is the ability to add functionality to an existing website. With .NET you cant just drop in a little data collection form into an existing HTML page. You can with ASP or PHP. Since I do classicASP which fully embraces intermingling of code and HTML, PHP might be the ideal choice since that would make be ambidextrous across either environment. If its a windows box, out of my control, ASP. if its a linux box, PHP. Both using the same development methodology which I have been doing for many years now.

So i think I am going to take a stab at PHP. really its just a context issue for me, and then figuring out what libraries/objects/components/whatever is standard to make life easier. I'm going to try to use classes for as much as I can, because thats how I work anyway.
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« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2007, 03:24:50 PM »

So how do i start?

 ROFLMAO
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perkiset
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« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2007, 03:28:03 PM »

Ring ring...
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« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2007, 11:01:57 PM »

though then again, in .net
something.something.something.morethings.20things.response.writ e IS GHEYER

you forgot:
Code:
ObjectFactoryFactory objectFactoryFactory = ObjectFactoryFactoryFactory.createObjectFactory(SystemConfigurationFactory.createSystemConfiguration().getDefaultObjectFactoryFactorySettings());
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« Reply #9 on: September 11, 2007, 03:12:36 AM »

I write in C++ 8 hours a day, and I never use the IDE autocomplete or anything like that, at the end of the day im better than the IDE so can work faster without it autocompleting my functions etc [plus MS cant get intellisense to work properly]

either way its down to you nutballs, there are plenty of IDE's for php too
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