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Author Topic: 30" gut check needed  (Read 4672 times)
nutballs
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« on: December 02, 2009, 02:28:36 PM »

So there are only a few 30" monitors out there that are not silly expensive, or pieces of shit.
Can someone gut check me on this: http://4sp.in/2oz

The MOST IMPORTANT issue for us is color consistency.

My wife of course is thinking Mac 30", but I gotta put some options out, especially for $600 difference after tax avoidance.
My main concerns with the Mac monitor is inconsistent color across the screen. 40% drift from what I have read, is unacceptable to me. The LG seems to have about a 15% which compared to highend monitors, is about on par.

Anything jump out as "bad" about it?

oh and obviously we have a colorimeter to calibrate the monitor, so the "out of the box color sucks" problem is not an issue.
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perkiset
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« Reply #1 on: December 02, 2009, 02:58:55 PM »

My wife of course is thinking Mac 30", but I gotta put some options out, especially for $600 difference after tax avoidance.
My main concerns with the Mac monitor is inconsistent color across the screen. 40% drift from what I have read, is unacceptable to me. The LG seems to have about a 15% which compared to highend monitors, is about on par.
!

I don't get that at all ... there's something wrong with that. LG is a reasonable name and that's a fair price ... but the Mac monitors are supposed to be the best in that space. If you're getting anything other than that, we should make a call for you to the Apple biz folks. Since they advert that they are the big dog in the artist/graphics production space, I'd take them to task. FFS - 40% drift? There's NO WAY. That's a bad monitor.

As you know, I have reasonably high-end Samsungs right next to the Apple monitors. The difference is stunning and unmistakable. I also purchased some niche high-enders for the Dr. clients you know - the difference there is also clear.
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« Reply #2 on: December 02, 2009, 04:02:14 PM »

See thats its though.
http://www.tomsguide.com/us/30inch-LCD-monitors,review-1293-2.html
sorry 35% brightness.
Thats not the only "technical review" i found with color issues.

but even so, that $600 is hard to swallow...
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« Reply #3 on: December 02, 2009, 04:45:58 PM »

Well no doubt ... especially if it doesn't do what you need.

You have a colorimeter, right? Because if J wants the Apple, you get 14 days to return it. You could give it a test and see what you get ... I just don't see how Apple could have the rep they do on that monitor with that kind of discrepancy, but their description of why I'd not notice it is accurate.

I know this sounds like crap, but get both (um, "rent" them Wink ) and put them side-by-side for a few days. See how J likes them. To me, it was quite obvious (still is) but her eye will tell the tale.
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« Reply #4 on: December 02, 2009, 04:52:57 PM »

i would do that for every monitor if i could.

the problem is, there is NOWHERE that sells 30" monitors locally, at least that I can find.
So i am thinking that I can order the LG, keep it for me regardless. Pick up the mac30, compare, decide, return or keep the mac30.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #5 on: December 02, 2009, 04:58:55 PM »

If you want this monitor as strictly a PC monitor it's fine.  In fact the specs are solid, though I'd shoot for closer to 10k contrast ratio as opposed to 3K.  However, if you ever plan on using it with an xbox, digital cable, DVD, etc. etc. do NOT get it.  The inputs are seriously limited and HDMI isn't even on the spec.

Personally, even if it was beautiful I'd have a hard time paying so much for a monitor that locked me into strictly PC usage.  PC usage with a powerful video card to compliment the picture.  Also, I'm personally against anything above 2ms response time but at 30" I'd say having 5ms is pretty solid (6ms required to avoid issues with movie playback).

But it looks nice if it fits your needs and LG is a fantastic brand I'd recommend in general. 

There's my
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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2009, 05:26:17 PM »

I'd love if you'd post an explanation of the real-world effects of the difference between 3K and 10K contrast, or dot pitch, or the response time. I understand pretty well how things things work, but it'd be great coming from a true video snob  Grin
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« Reply #7 on: December 02, 2009, 08:29:37 PM »

thanks for the info itto.
It will only be a PC monitor. never anything else.
The higher specs for a 30" you mention are into the realm of Eizo, which is silly expensive to say the least.

On the subject of Contrast Ratio. My understanding is that it is more important for movie/tv type viewing, ie, 10 feet away, vs 2-3 feet of desktop viewing.

My monitors would be purely for "i have an absurd amount of shit open at once". Jen's purely for "i have a really detailed image i need bigger so I dont have to lean in to see WTF i am doing". oh and WoW i spose.
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« Reply #8 on: December 02, 2009, 10:52:16 PM »

I'd love if you'd post an explanation of the real-world effects of the difference between 3K and 10K contrast, or dot pitch, or the response time. I understand pretty well how things things work, but it'd be great coming from a true video snob  Grin

>3K and 10K contrast

Although much number play goes into this metric, the intention is to reflect the ability to display the darkest darks and the lightest lights - in one display.  Therefore a low contrast ratio can reflect issues that resemble low quality LCDs that have literally no capacity to display true black images on the screen, along with being unable to truly produce the brightest whites found in CRT type displays, such as a DLP.  Think of dull video representations of anything (as seen on bad laptops or hand-held devices).  But with strikingly sharp displays (like your damn plasma) you'll notice that whites slap you in the face and blacks don't seem like dull, gray, low-budge surfaces found in most portable GPS systems Smiley  Contrast ratio was far less of a metric in CRT land, since blacks were simply "off" and whites would produce blindness if stared at for too long.

>Dot pitch

This one is filled with marketing hooey.  The intention is to measure the distance between pixels thereby revealing a dimension of picture quality.  This dimension is meaningless at certain distances since the human eye can't detect the lack of "resolution" unless sufficiently close enough.  The problem is various corps have "redefined" this definition from a diagonal measurement of the monitor to some other, selfishly beneficial yardstick which yields better (smaller) numbers for their hardware.  Bottom line, if measured fairly this should be the lowest number possible since it implies the smallest distance between pixels.

>Response time / refresh rate

The response time is the time it takes for an LCD pixel to change from black to white and back to black again. 

From: http://computers.toptenreviews.com/monitors/response-time-explained.htm

"Look for a monitor with the fastest time possible; it does matter. Keep in mind that display quality is also important, so look for a high contrast ratio and small dot pitch coupled with a powerful graphics card to give you the best view possible."

In a nutshell, fast response times avoid "blurring and ghosting."  Think of the display model at Best Buy of some discount LCD TV showing a soccer game.  When the ball is kicked and the camera moves quickly, a good monitor has no delay where a slower response time monitor looks choppy and laggy.  In video games with extreme fast action this is totally crital if you want to master the sharp-shooter head-shot technique  Grin

As for refresh rates you already know what this is about, my long lost mentor Wink  Think VTR (as in Vertical Retrace Manager, umkay)  The higher the better.  This is the rate at which the VTR "gun" literally repaints your screen for you.  So in CRT land a low refresh rate (say 50hz) will cause your eyeballs to eventually freak out.  Here's a good test.  Take your right hand and wave it in front of your monitor with your fingers spread far apart from each other.  If it looks like you're having an acid flashback you mush have a monitor (TV, etc.) with a low refresh rate.  If it looks relatively smooth your refresh rate is probably good. 

Ever noticed how bad a monitor looks with a low refresh rate under florescent lighting?  Wonder why??  This is because florescent lighting is pulsing light.  It's not constant like incandescent lighting or, say, fire.  Therefore the disastrous discount lighting mashup between florescent and low refresh rate CRT is your fast track to blindness!

But seriously perks, if I'm content with a 42" LCD TV and DVD "backups" on a 5.1 surround system, I simply must not be the "video snob" you're looking for Wink
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« Reply #9 on: December 02, 2009, 11:15:55 PM »

Wink @ lots in there

Thanks for the explo ... some of it did strike me as hooie and that made it pretty clear.

Vertical Retrace. Wow man, that one takes me wayWAY back.

Cheers ITTO. I feel considerably less stoopid.

BTW: flashing the fingers in front of the 30" Apple monitor, no acid. Bummer, but I guess that makes it a good monitor  ROFLMAO
PinkHat was like, "WTF are you doing?" It was equal parts funny and informational.
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« Reply #10 on: December 03, 2009, 07:45:12 AM »

I have nothing to add, but look forward to the day when I can retire my 50" Pioneer Elite Kuro and use it as a computer monitor.

lol
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« Reply #11 on: December 03, 2009, 07:51:02 AM »

but the kiro will not be high enough rez?
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« Reply #12 on: December 03, 2009, 09:47:37 AM »

Quote
As you know, I have reasonably high-end Samsungs right next to the Apple monitors. The difference is stunning and unmistakable.

I also have nothing to add, but I just want to clarify: perk, are you saying the Apple monitors are better than the Samsung or vice-versa?

</hijack>
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perkiset
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« Reply #13 on: December 03, 2009, 09:57:12 AM »

Apple WAY better. I had some of these Samsungs as my primaries for a while and began getting headaches (didn't know why at the time) - PinkHat thought it was my monitors and purchased the 30 and 24 in front of me and to my right. Headaches gone virtually immediately, have not returned. Since I spend so much time looking at the damn things, I believe that the quality of the monitor just makes it easier on my eyes. I notice that when I'm photoshopping I also don't have to magnify things quite so much, nor do I need to push my nose into the monitor to get that very last detail ... I can see them more clearly. I still have 3 of the Samsungs total, 2 horizontal to the left and one vertical for email. Although the 2 horizontal (the highest quality) are considerably better than the vertical one, they still do not compare to the Apple mon.

This may all be hooie, but for me, it works - and works quite well.
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« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2009, 10:00:19 AM »

last eye appointment?
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