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Author Topic: The Daily  (Read 9730 times)
daviator
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« on: February 04, 2011, 10:27:23 PM »

I have a confession to make.

I'm a dinosaur.

Yes, I read the newspaper.  Every day.  On paper.  It's an important part of my daily ritual, and it's also one of the ways I stay informed on a myriad of international, national, state and local issues.  I've yet to see anything as convenient to get my news while drinking coffee and eating breakfast as the good old, dead-tree based newspaper.

But when the iPad came out, it was about the closest I'd seen to a platform that could conceivably drag me away from my precious newsprint.  The release this week of "The Daily" (a daily interactive newspaper for the iPad, put out by News Corp.) seemed like something I had to try.

I am both impressed and disappointed.  The interface is pretty great, with some articles mixing text with video-- rather reminiscent of the newspapers in the Harry Potter films.  It "feels", more or less, like an advanced newspaper.  I think they've done a good job on the application itself.

But it completely fails on the content.  The stories have even less depth than the typical (paltry) article in USA Today, already a paper for people with ADD.  There are a couple of attempts at serious serious articles, and the rest is basically tiny short articles of dubious merit, written in a tabloid-journalism style that makes me want to take a shower.  It just feels trashy to me, which might attract some people, but it isn't really my "thing" when looking for news.

But I think the platform and the application have potential, and I hope some of the large newspapers will start moving toward that format.  Now if they'd just make an iPad that I can spill coffee on without worrying...
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2011, 01:49:48 PM »

This is one reason why I get so frustrated with Apple's ultra-strict content controls from applications to the books, news and other information you're permitted to view.  When it comes to news, it's especially important for the "free" press to be just that - free 

When I had my iPad and was browsing around at the books I was permitted to purchase or even receive for free, the unbelievable amount of information that wasn't available was chilling.  It's like Apple wants us hooked on junk romance novels and most definitely does not want us learning how to program computers  Mobster
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perkiset
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« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2011, 02:12:19 PM »

This is one reason why I get so frustrated with Apple's ultra-strict content controls from applications to the books, news and other information you're permitted to view.  When it comes to news, it's especially important for the "free" press to be just that - free 
ROFLMAO FFS ITTO, this has NOTHING to do with that, at all. A) Murdoch's projects have nothing to do with "free" and B) Apple doesn't have ultra-strict controls, they have no-pornography rules which are being rewritten as we speak for the forthcoming Playboy mag. And BTW anything you really want is on the Web and Apple does nothing at all to restrict you. I'll go with you and reasonable arguments, but c'mon man.

When I had my iPad and was browsing around at the books I was permitted to purchase or even receive for free, the unbelievable amount of information that wasn't available was chilling.  It's like Apple wants us hooked on junk romance novels and most definitely does not want us learning how to program computers  Mobster
If all you did was try to purchase from the Apple store then you were simply limited by the fact that Apple has a hard time cutting deals with publishers. Did you install Kindle on your iPad? Download anything from the Gutenberg free library? My only frustration here is when I want a book digitally and NO ONE carries it digitally, the only way to get it is paper. Well Apple can't be blamed for that. But anything (except pure Flash content) I get on my desktop is available to me on my 'pad. Everything. Even tube8.com comes through perfectly. Thank goodness Wink

I told you, you should have spent a half hour with me on the pad and you'd actually have had an awesome experience.

But to the thread's topic, the Daily:
Unfortunately I agree DV8R. I was in great hopes, since USA Today is top 40 at best, WSJ, NYT etc just feel like old representations of the same stuff, with a clunky interface. There are some interesting interface notions, and some are actually not bad. But I agree the writing is uncompelling and there are some poor decisions. The thought that you have to turn the pad to view a slide show -> story, for example, strikes me as really bad for people that like to take their ePaper just portrait or (like me) landscape.

The biggest thing that this represents to me is that perhaps groups like Wired will get with the program and produce a meaningful subscription rate for their content, rather than full rack rate and an app purchase for every issue. At that point I'll happily re-subscribe to the likes of PopSci, Wired, perhaps even Time again. As it is I'm sort of in media limbo - I just toss the mags that come in the door because I will never actually read them, but the PopSci, Wired, Time etc feeds just don't have the same wholesome, vitamin packed goodness of the finished mag. Perhaps with the new subscription model (ABOUT DAMN TIME, APPLE) will make it so that they see enough value to rework their interface and break some new ground.

Then again, perhaps as dinosaurs we are simply asking too much of the delivery vehicle to replace an experience that we both are extremely comfortable and used to. Dunno. I'd like to think I'm more experientally limber than that  Undecided
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« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2011, 02:49:21 PM »

If all you did was try to purchase from the Apple store then you were simply limited by the fact that Apple has a hard time cutting deals with publishers.

Bingo.  And since you have to buy content through Apple, be it an Apple offering or something approved and sanctioned by Apple (for now anyway) and then sold through the Apple channel, this will remain a problem.  But yes, the content within a specific subscription (the level of this post) creates an additional problem if the content is lacking 
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« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2011, 03:02:00 PM »

Bingo.  And since you have to buy content through Apple, be it an Apple offering or something approved and sanctioned by Apple (for now anyway) and then sold through the Apple channel, this will remain a problem.
WTF are you talking about? Are you saying that I am imagining all my Amazon Kindle books on my iPad? All the Gutenberg free stuff *actually in my iBooks on the iPad?* PDFs of other books that I have purchased are not on my pad? I'm not jailbroken. This is all standard stuff meng. Kindle is free and an instant download. Whisper sync brings me the book I want within seconds of desiring it. If what you're saying is that the problem is Apple doesn't offer everything in the world through iTunes, well then whatever. Of course not. But asserting that content, knowledge, data etc is in some way restricted by Apple is simply, flat out wrong. If anything, the Apple platform offers more ways of getting good stuff to more people than any other platform around. This is because it's much easier than any other platform around. My brother in law is reading stuff he never even knew he could get (he was a Windows guy for the last 2 decades) because the iPad has made it so easy.


But yes, the content within a specific subscription (the level of this post) creates an additional problem if the content is lacking 
I can't even tell you how many times I've clicked "Tell the publisher I want this in Kindle format" at the Amazon store and virtually none of those books every become available. I'd have to say that it's particularly technical books. It's almost like the most techy of stuff refuses to go high-tech.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 03:03:34 PM by perkiset » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2011, 08:32:44 PM »

Quote
But asserting that content, knowledge, data etc is in some way restricted by Apple is simply, flat out wrong

 ROFLMAO

From cult of mac: Apple Banned Sony Reader For Out-Of-App eBook Purchases… and Kindle May Be Next.

Quote
If a new report coming from The New York Times is anything to go by, though, Apple may be ready to strike Kindle on iOS down for the count unless it agrees to utilize iTunes’ own in-app purchase system...

 Coffee Break
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« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2011, 10:46:52 PM »

Are you kidding? Really? That bombast was blown apart hours after it was "released." it was all conjecture and head line grabbing (read, Ad selling or eyeball catching) flotsam. It was a wonderfully explosive sounding headline that's utterly meaningless.

Just so you know: Apples guidelines are simply this. If you're purchasing something through their store or channel IE., in app purchases, Apple gets a cut. purchase it any other way, no worries. sony's deal was that they tried to push a free app, that once you got it your purchases went through them and avoided Apple. They used Apple's channel to create a tunnel to avoid Apples channel. The reason Amazon works is that you purchase through their website. the app connects with the Amazon Whisper Sync mechanism and that's how you get your books. Never been an issue - Apple made very clear only hours after that story hit that street that it never will.

And it makes sense. Use their highway, pay a toll. Use the net as your highway, no toll. Simple. it's not that you have to agree to use Apples in-app purchase system, it's that you have to agree to the terms of the in-app purchase system if you want to use it. That was very shoddy reporting, although probably came from an Android fanboi.

Dude.
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« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2011, 02:55:58 AM »

And it makes sense. Use their highway, pay a toll. Use the net as your highway, no toll. Simple. it's not that you have to agree to use Apples in-app purchase system, it's that you have to agree to the terms of the in-app purchase system if you want to use it. That was very shoddy reporting, although probably came from an Android fanboi
Nah android (google) is just learning that you should make sensationalistic headlines, that have little substance, just like apple does Wink

As for the highway and the "toll" premise. Not it is not that simple. A stupid remark like that could have only been made by a brainwashed fanatical apple fanboi Wink
That was the whole case against Standard Oil ~90+ years ago.
The case was not about "oil" directly, it was about the transport of oil. Old JD was very smart. He figured out that owning the refinery is useless, if you can not transport oil. In those days oil was transported by tanker cars. JD tied up all the railways, so only his oil could be transported. Then he bought out the other refineries for nothing Wink

Nothing Standard Oil did was illegal.
How this will turn out will be interesting. You have the big boys going at each other Wink



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« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2011, 03:59:20 AM »

Actually perks legally apple is in the wrong.
When IBM mainframes where first manufactured, they where sold with a software bundle (with source).
You could modify the source code, do what you wanted.
But you could not create your own software and sell it to run on other IBM mainframes. (there where lots of other rules what you could and could not do with the mainframe).
This was the business model for DEC, and other companies.
If DEC (along with others) had not won the lawsuit, there would be no computing industry, besides IBM mainframes.

Law is based on presidence. Based on previous presidences, standard oil, and DEC they are in the wrong.

The M$ case is also another important landmark. They attempted to use "secret API" which M$ software could use, which other competing software could not.
This is how M$ attempted to destroy Borland etc.
They lost that one.
Based on that, the apple "buy API" makes no sense what so ever, "legally".

Amazon and Sony have different objectives, so for Amazon it is just cheaper to pay Apple's extortion fee.
Sony,is probably secretly allying with HTC, Samsung and Google.
Google can use their infrastruction to pump out anti-apple propaganda.
This is how things differ from the previous cases. The US market was important for computing devices 30+ years ago.
But using a combination of politics, legal tactics, propaganda maybe they can get apple devices banned from other markets Wink
Or force apple to make 2 products, "open" for certain markets, closed for US markets  ROFLMAO ROFLMAO
If that is the case, I wonder how Steve Jobs will spin that one  ROFLMAO ROFLMAO
Asian's should not be exploited, but it is good to exploit Americans  ROFLMAO ROFLMAO
A reverse opium war  ROFLMAO
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perkiset
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« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2011, 09:39:35 AM »

Good grief.

There is no secret API, no purchasable API, no hidden agenda. It's all downloaded and used for free. There is nothing in the API that you can't use, but if you want to sell through Apples channel you have to agree to their terms.

Amazon does not pay Apple an extortion fee, that's the point. The Kindle app is free. You purchase your books through Amazons site and you pay Amazons rate for them. Period. If Amazon wanted to sell the books using Apple's in-app process then they would pay a haircut. Similar to folks that have certain DISH networks. (At least as I understand it, I do not have first hand knowledge) - your DISH subscription and a downloaded free app let you view PPV movies that you pay through your DISH account, but watch on your iPad. No toll to Apple, again, the Pay Me process is elsewhere.

It's funny to me that Apple, who's We're a Business And Intend To Profit Thusly attitude is somehow scandalous or deceptive, where ol' Do No Evil seems to get a free pass as they repeatedly build and operate in a very snarky way. To me this is quite simple. Apple built one helluva highway for people to move wares. If people use it, they pau a reasonable fee to Apple. frankly, I think is brilliant because developers essentially get to outsource the entire notion of bulding a Pay Me platform.
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« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2011, 11:43:53 AM »

The argument used to be that buying direct from the Apple store was required to insure optimum user experience, at least in terms of software  Roll Eyes 
Now it's "pay a fair price for using the troll bridge, if you should choose to use this fine bridge."   

The thing is, Apple's making it required, not optional.  Sounds a bit like extortion.  The Hobbs Act defines extortion as "the obtaining of property from another, with his consent, induced by wrongful use of actual or threatened force, violence, or fear, or under color of official right."

Read on:

Quote
But Steve Haber, president of Sony’s digital reading division, said on Monday that Apple had told his company that from now on, all in-app purchases would have to go through Apple.  “It’s the opposite of what we wanted to bring to the market,” Mr. Haber said. “We always wanted to bring the content to as many devices as possible, not one device to one store.”

Apps like the Kindle app from Amazon.com and the one that Sony submitted open up a browser window when a user wants to buy something. This allows the app makers to argue that technically the purchase is happening on the Web, not within the app.  Apple is now saying the app makers must allow those purchases to happen within the app, not in a separate browser window, with Apple getting its standard 30 percent cut of the transaction. At the moment this applies only to e-book purchases.

Why is this even a debate?  Huh?

You contest that it's not Apple's fault that they have a hard time cutting deals with publishers  Cry 
Apple simply offers the "choice" to use their premium purchasing highway  ROFLMAO   
This is not true.  It's neither some preferred path to purchase anything, since everyone's got one and would rather you use theirs, nor is it a choice anymore. 

It's all about Apple collecting as much money as possible - content be dammed  Mobster
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« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2011, 12:04:01 PM »

Why is this even a debate?  Huh?
You're right, it's not a debate. The article was wrong.

The actual statement from Apple was pretty clear: If an app allows for an out-of-app purchase, it must ALSO include an in-app purchase capability. In other words, if I want to pay the appletax and go through the store I can, but I have the option of going through the other, vendor supported channel.

You may try as hard as you wish to paint Apple into this corner but you are inaccurate. Read the articles that followed that one. You are perseverating on something saliva worthy, but it is not true.

You contest that it's not Apple's fault that they have a hard time cutting deals with publishers  Cry 
Apple simply offers the "choice" to use their premium purchasing highway  ROFLMAO   
This is not true.  It's neither some preferred path to purchase anything, since everyone's got one and would rather you use theirs, nor is it a choice anymore.
ROFLMAO I never said it wasn't Apple's fault that they don't have agreements with publishers, I simply said they didn't have them. FFS man.

I think it's HILARIOUS you would think that, because something is so compelling, so cool or so I've Gotta Have it that if it's not offered the way that YOU think is fair it's wrong. They created a damn fine channel and product. People are willing to put on the applecuffs because the stuff rocks. And not even, really. NOTHING stops me from purchasing whatever I want from Amazon with my 'pad. Nothing. And Apple doesn't get any of my money for products purchased at Amazon. And yes, I use this much more than iBooks because Apple doesn't have the agreements with the publishers, so their library is quite limited. But honestly, if Apple created it such that anything sold by Amazon they got a haircut for it'd STILL be cool with me because it's APPLES CHANNEL. It's like saying that if I get affiliates to push me traffic, it is in some way wrong that they demand their payment. I used THEIR CHANNEL to push traffic to my site (ostensibly to create my own sales). I really don't get how you don't understand that.

It's all about Apple collecting as much money as possible - content be dammed  Mobster
ROFLMAO As if Apple exists to serve your want for free everything in the way that you want it.

Using facts, rather than your conjecture or those inaccurate articles, please demonstrate how Apple keeps you from content - specifically, where Apple keeps you from content to their financial benefit, as you assert.
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« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2011, 12:50:53 PM »

How many more articles will it take? http://moconews.net/article/419-so-much-for-the-digital-newsstand-apple-rejects-sony-reader-app/

Remember, Apple has permitted this behavior for the Kindle and others but is changing their course and this raises the question on whether they will ban the Kindle too as a result.  But are you trying to deny that Apple officially banned Sony's app using the same argument? 

Quote
Apple has reportedly rejected Sony’s Reader app from its App Store because it sells content within the app, and lets users access content that they purchased outside Apple’s own App Store.

Seems pretty clear.
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« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2011, 01:03:25 PM »

No in-app option that can go to the app store. Sony wanted to use the channel and Apple wants to take a toll on it.

The bolding you offer tells the story: "because it sells content within the app" - the second half is completely inaccurate. Apple does not in any way restrict me from accessing content I've purchased through other sources. If you want to sell something through Apple's channel, you'll pay a toll. Sell it on your own, access it via an app, no toll.

There were probably a hundred of those articles that came out within minutes of it first being asserted - the Apple Is A Monster meme moves so very quickly. But it's inaccurate.
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« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2011, 01:30:48 PM »

Fair enough I suppose.  But if you care to share any links to articles contesting all of this - as you suggest is the truth - please do.  Otherwise the "reported truth" from everything I'm seeing suggests this did in fact happen to Sony.

Popcorn
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