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Author Topic: Possible reason why apple is delaying flash  (Read 1544 times)
nop_90
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« on: October 07, 2009, 05:46:19 PM »

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/06/16/apples_open_secret_sproutcore_is_cocoa_for_the_web.html
http://ajaxian.com/archives/sproutcore-being-talked-of-as-a-flash-killer-really

Google and apple are betting on "open web" as in new HTML 5 type apps.

SproutCore docs seems kinda sucky at the moment.
Along the same lines is qooxdoo.
Basically in both cases u can design a web app in the same manner u would design a delphi/QT/wxwidget app without fuking arround with html/css etc.
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perkiset
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« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2009, 08:11:18 PM »

That'd be a mofo of a gamble... "flash killer" wow. Audacious to say the extreme least.

There are some really cool things about SproutCore and we can see interesting developments in parallel with the Apache Foundation and their javascript based IDE (or is that Mozilla? Can't think of the name ATM) - lots of folks trying to use the viewport of the browser for real development - 'bout time in my opinion. But I would be *amazed* if Apple really thought they could take Flash on and win. Even for Google to do it. Huge.
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« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2009, 08:27:14 PM »

its an interesting thought, but frankly, i think its just apple being tarded, nothing more.

There must be a fear that flash would make jailbreaking "that much easier" or exploits would gain control, or something. I just don't get it though. Even if they just made it so flash had ZERO access, at least then the damn menus on a few sites i would like to use would work...
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I could eat a bowl of Alphabet Soup and shit a better argument than that.
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« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2009, 10:16:35 PM »

That'd be a mofo of a gamble... "flash killer" wow. Audacious to say the extreme least.
Not really.
As in definition of gamble is the amount that you wager vs the amount you can win.
JS engines have gotten a heck of a lot quicker in the last few years.

There also is not only SproutCore but also
http://cappuccino.org/ and http://qooxdoo.org/ to mention a few.

For all 3 frameworks you do not do any HTML/CSS
Basically it is a script that loads.
And it is very similar to building a GUI in Delphi etc.

The widgets can be "skinned".
Coupled with the fact that the new version of FF will allow embedded video (I think webkit might be going the same way).
For the canvas widget you can get 40+FPS so it is even fast enuff to do games of sorts.

Also the big advantage is u do not have to try and figure out the ActionScript language etc.

I am not saying they will win.
But Google and Apple both have the webkit browser.
All of the above frameworks are open source. So for very little cost they potentially can hurt adobe.
But on the other hand if they lose, nothing is lost.

Another problem with flash is the VM keeps on changing every release.
So it is hard to make a compiler that can target thier VM.
While it is a heck of a lot easier to make a python/ruby/lisp/scheme compiler that outputs C/JS.

The demos for http://cappuccino.org/learn/demos/ are pretty impressive
Powerpoint in ur browser Smiley http://280slides.com/Editor/
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« Reply #4 on: October 08, 2009, 03:34:28 AM »

I have been playing with Sproutcore for some time now. The problem with it is the documentation at the moment but Charles (the creator) knows that and the team is if I remember correctly going to focus on that after they finalize 1.0. Right now you can't even complete the basic to-do program tutorial because it lags behind so much.

I love the idea but there's still some problems. Sproutcore apps are great to use with Safari 4 but they are laggy with Firefox 3.5. The point is to make desktop apps on the web but it's not going to work if it has noticeable lag with mouse clicks and resulting actions. Also I'm still not really convinced about the whole "javascript coded apps" thing. It's just too much user's browser & CPU dependable when it comes to actually doing some complicated shit. When you start thinking about the benefits that Sproutcore fans say like for example "think how much server resources you save when everything is processed on client end". Yeah but wasn't this whole web app thing suppose to be good because processing happens in the cloud and it's snappy for everybody regardless the computer specs? I still think cloud apps are the future but we have a long way to go before they get even close to desktop apps, that's for sure.
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