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Author Topic: Lion  (Read 4866 times)
kurdt
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« on: July 20, 2011, 10:49:40 PM »

NOOO.. this sucks compared to Snow Leopard. More animations that makes things appear slower, new visual style just doesn't hit the spot (looks like OSX wannabe Gnome skin or something), LaunchPad doesn't work at all with more than preinstalled apps, Mission Control is slow and choppy compared to Spaces & Expose. New scrolling makes sense with trackpad & touch but not with mouse. New fullscreen mode actually goes into different mode and that affects into second monitor as well. So I can't put Terminal in second monitor and Safari in fullscreen to other... this makes fullscreen pretty much useless. AirDrop looked cool but it seems I can't find it anywhere. Then I read that it supports only machines with Airport Express cards (not sure if I have one).. that's one big wtf limitation.

I'm seriously thinking about switching back to Snow Leopard.
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« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 12:19:15 AM »

I'm downloading it tonight and will be giving it a go as well. Going to take the opportunity to convt to an SSD as my boot drive and perform a clean install. I've read that virtually all of the animations and such can be toggled, so I'll betcha there will be a super user post somewhere soon.

I've been on a trackpad for the last 6 months just to prepare for this. Looking forward to seeing if the positive reviews are fanboi or simply different style that you, Kurdt. Bummer about fullscreen, however I never really assumed that it would work right on my 6 monitor rig in any case. But I'm looking forward to seeing it on PinkHat's MBA.

LOL WTF is an airport express card? I've read that it's pretty damn simple, but you'll only really get it if there are airdrop points for you to drop to, rather than just showing up on your machine. I believe that the point eventually will be to airdrop files to and from iOS devices, so it better be a dead simple setup.
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 08:33:39 AM »

LOL WTF is an airport express card? I've read that it's pretty damn simple, but you'll only really get it if there are airdrop points for you to drop to, rather than just showing up on your machine. I believe that the point eventually will be to airdrop files to and from iOS devices, so it better be a dead simple setup.
Airport Express card is Apple's repackaging name for wifi card Smiley Well it's a bit confusing to read from Apple's site that Airdrop icon appears in Finder but when I look for it, I can't seem to find a single mention in the whole OS. So not to mention that it actually appears only if there's Airdrop targets around you is a bit dumb. They could have at least put inactive icon there or something to indicate that you actually have it.
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 12:57:29 PM »

OK I'm now running on Lion from an SSD. I will post my update procedure here later today, as I think it's worth going over.
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« Reply #4 on: July 23, 2011, 01:25:47 AM »

I upgraded my Macbook Pro to Lion, I'm a little underwhelmed... I was expecting a little more steak and it mostly seems like sizzle.  I do kinda like, I think, the reversed-direction scrolling with the track pad, but it's weird with a mouse as was previously pointed out.  Launch Pad is kind of a useless gimmick.  Mission Control - how is that different from Expose and Spaces, really?  Didn't spend my time with it, it just looked awfully familiar.  Airdrop, probably handy but since I can only run Lion on one machine (see below) it doesn't really help.

But since I can't upgrade my main computer (iMac) maybe never, since I can't find anything that will replace Quicken, which won't run on Lion I'm not going to be able to enjoy most of the features anyway.  I'm really, really bummed about the Quicken thing.  It's unbelievable to me that there's not a single financial application that does half what that (admittedly LOUSY) Quicken software does.  Even if I were willing to dump the 22 years worth of financial data I have in QUicken -- which would be a hard press -- there isn't a single other product that meets my needs, and I have tried them all.  So I'm resigned to sticking with Snow Leopard for the long haul.

OK, back to Lion critiquing, carry on...
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kurdt
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« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2011, 09:19:53 AM »

After 5 days of using it this still sucks compared to Snow Leopard. Mission Control is still slow and choppy as hell compared to Spaces. I feel like now that I have this Mission Control thing pop up every time I do expose for all application windows it's very hard to actually find the right window compared to Spaces & Expose. Fullscreen mode is truly useless. One thing I do like is finally the ability to resize window from any side or corner. New scrollbars are bit weird, not Apple style at all. They look like somebody got the idea of make new style for them but actually forgot to take it any further than first proto visually. New Finder is a mixed bag because there's some stuff that make it much better but at the same time unified color scheme uses colors that makes it look like everything is disabled. They have lighten colors a lot all over the OS, I don't appreciate that change.

Overall I feel like Lion feels like a prototype visually and conceptually. At least for me user experience has suffered, but I'm staying with Lion just because of the new security stuff. Also Lion feels like it wants desperately go iOS direction but every step it takes eats away the experience that makes OSX the best DESKTOP operating system around. Unfortunately trackpads and other touch-based input devices are still so rare that I feel like it was a bit dumb decision to try to convert 1x1 pixel precision operating system to 40x40 pixel precision touch operating system. If Apple wants to do touch-based OS for desktops they should just transfer iOS on top of OSX. I think Win8 is going to have similar "be or not to be" syndrome with it's Win7 Mobile user interface.
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perkiset
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« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2011, 10:14:10 AM »

I'm in 4 days now. Still putting together my larger post about doing an upgrade.

But my experience so far:
  • Definitely still has a couple bugs laying about, but surprisingly uncritical. Things like some System Preferences not remembering their settings for one or two times I set them and reboot (now they are settling in). I've only had problems with one app, SoundFlower which is a management interface for my optical out. There's an intermittent problem with using Mission Control and the kernel_task going nuts - I think I've isolated it down to iTunes but don't have it yet. Sometimes just a relaunch of the finder fixes it. But all in all, this release is pretty stable for a brand new operating system. One of the largest things that pisses me off is a problem with Spaces and my system. When I use CTRL-Right or CTRL-# to change spaces it locks my keyboard. Mission Control suffers the same problem. I think it has to do with my 6-monitor setup, but it still really bugs me.
  • Mission Control: Have to agree with Kurdt. I will reserve complete judgement until I've had more time with it, but the animation makes it feel sloppy and slow, and the layout itself is just not as simple as Spaces was. It confuses me and I am less inclined or compelled to use it immediately, even though I count on it. I need to spend an hour or two and really grind out the dynamics of it so that I understand it enough to comment. I think part of the problem is muscle memory with Spaces.
  • Launchpad: Waste of drivespace. C'mon Apple. Weak.
  • Essential operations: Stable, quick. The new window opening animation is also painful because it perversely makes it feel that windows closing is faster than opening (it's not, but feels like it because there is no closing animation). I've got a shiny nickel, says that Apple gives us a Turn Off Window Animation option in the next release or two.
  • Full Screen Apps: Again, like Kurdt, my multi-monitor rig does this no justice and is essentially useless. On PinkHat's Air it's pretty hot. The problem there is that I want to swipe the screen rather than the keypad LOL. It's pretty clear that we're in a transitional phase, because the onscreen metaphors just don't translate to key stuff as well as I think Apple would like them to.
  • Swipe Stuff and Reversed Scrolling: Some may remember than I converted to a trackpad full time, rather than a mouse on my desktop, many months ago in preparation for this. The new swipe gestures are pretty cool, but I think I'm going to need to put a little sign up to remember to use them. There are about 15 different gestures or ways of controlling things via the trackpad and it's clear this is great stuff. With regards to the scrolling: It is configurable to be like the old days. This is WAY WAY better in my opinion for mouse-bound folks. The problem is not the UI metaphor, it's muscle memory again. I find that I am naturally drawn to do it the way Apple has now imposed, but muscle memory takes things the other direction. With my pad it's a bit easier because of my new habits with the phone and pad. But I still find myself moving the other direction. The most important piece here though is the draw AWAY From scroll bars. You can get to them, you can have them visible at all times if you like and even work like the old days. But the notion of moving the content around rather than the scroll bars is inherently more natural and powerful. And the trackpad does this a lot of justice. It's just that we've been trained for a LONG time now to do things the other way and I think this is going to piss people off for quite a while.
  • Reboot and return to the way things were, save version etc: Nice. Rebooting and automatically coming right back to where I was is pretty strong. Versions looks enormously cool, but until M$ et al come out with updates to make use of it, it'll be a bit before this is really strong.

All in all it's stable and for the price, a fine upgrade. I think the smartest thing for Apple here is to grind out the bugs and smooth things over before releasing iOS5 and the cloud - because there's where all the real juice is in this update. We early adopters are simply the beta-writ-large that will make sure the cloud deployment actually goes like it should. I am not certain that I can recommend this update to many yet, unless you are willing to work in an OS that looks promising but doesn't offer that much upgrade. Honestly, because of the way I have my rig set up it offers very little.

I'll finish my upgrade post in just a bit and get some different thoughts out there which I felt were off topic for this thread.
« Last Edit: July 25, 2011, 10:16:03 AM by perkiset » Logged

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kurdt
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« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2011, 11:37:19 AM »

I'm in 4 days now. Still putting together my larger post about doing an upgrade.

But my experience so far:
  • Mission Control: Have to agree with Kurdt. I will reserve complete judgement until I've had more time with it, but the animation makes it feel sloppy and slow, and the layout itself is just not as simple as Spaces was. It confuses me and I am less inclined or compelled to use it immediately, even though I count on it. I need to spend an hour or two and really grind out the dynamics of it so that I understand it enough to comment. I think part of the problem is muscle memory with Spaces.
I have found that only way I can now use OSX's virtual desktops was to bind switching to mouse's scrollwheel that has left/right switch in it. Of course this doesn't scale to more than 4 desktops because you have to go them thru one by one but it's still less painful that launching Mission Control. Because of that retard animation that pull back and spreads your apps around it's actually faster to just go thru 3 desktops from 1 to 4. That itself is a great indicator how bad the user experience I have with Mission Control. Also the scaling algo they use for app "thumbnails" in Mission Control must be from Apple 2 or something. Because apps look so pixelated and like they are in scaling period before final crisp thumbnail I'm always thinking "did it finish already or is it just lagging again?" and then I wait for few seconds to see if the computer does something. Frustrating and very annoying.

Quote
All in all it's stable and for the price, a fine upgrade. I think the smartest thing for Apple here is to grind out the bugs and smooth things over before releasing iOS5 and the cloud - because there's where all the real juice is in this update. We early adopters are simply the beta-writ-large that will make sure the cloud deployment actually goes like it should. I am not certain that I can recommend this update to many yet, unless you are willing to work in an OS that looks promising but doesn't offer that much upgrade. Honestly, because of the way I have my rig set up it offers very little.

I'll finish my upgrade post in just a bit and get some different thoughts out there which I felt were off topic for this thread.
I've found it pretty interesting that so many says "great upgrade for the price" which indicates that this is actually such a poor release that people actually have to justify it by looking at the price. It's interesting because with Apple this is normally not the case, people very rarely seem to talk about how much Apple product cost unless it's somebody trying to troll with the age old "Apple products are so expensive" argument.
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« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2011, 12:05:14 PM »

I have found that only way I can now use OSX's virtual desktops was to bind switching to mouse's scrollwheel that has left/right switch in it. Of course this doesn't scale to more than 4 desktops because you have to go them thru one by one but it's still less painful that launching Mission Control. Because of that retard animation that pull back and spreads your apps around it's actually faster to just go thru 3 desktops from 1 to 4. That itself is a great indicator how bad the user experience I have with Mission Control. Also the scaling algo they use for app "thumbnails" in Mission Control must be from Apple 2 or something. Because apps look so pixelated and like they are in scaling period before final crisp thumbnail I'm always thinking "did it finish already or is it just lagging again?" and then I wait for few seconds to see if the computer does something. Frustrating and very annoying.
I'm a CTRL-# kind of guy, so I don't spend a lot of time in the Mission Control page. I'm beginning to like seeing the example of all 8 spaces on top of each monitor, although I was used to seeing the mock up of my monitor layout simply on my main window. But the way I use things I can see that this MAY be advantageous in the future. Dunno yet.

I've found it pretty interesting that so many says "great upgrade for the price" which indicates that this is actually such a poor release that people actually have to justify it by looking at the price. It's interesting because with Apple this is normally not the case, people very rarely seem to talk about how much Apple product cost unless it's somebody trying to troll with the age old "Apple products are so expensive" argument.
Yeah true. The problem is that the best features are really not that usable yet, so there's a lot of hope in this upgrade. I think if they had waited till everything was live before doing it people would have been ROCKED. But I don't think that makes sense since there are going to be so many moving parts in the final incarnation of this OS that it makes sense to me to grind out the usability crap and simple bug stuff before actually going on to the new and earth shaking stuff.
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perkiset
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« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2011, 11:27:33 AM »

Ah, haha. This is what I've been looking for:

http://www.downloadcrew.com/article/24127-lion_tweaks

Check it:


... handy one stop shop for tweaking the little things that piss you off about Lion. The two animations, particularly have made me a much happier person. Everything here can be done from a terminal, but this is nicely done and dead easy.
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kurdt
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« Reply #10 on: August 10, 2011, 02:09:15 AM »

Few nice tweaks there. Now if I could only destroy Mission Control and bring Expose/Spaces back Roll Eyes
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« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2011, 06:51:56 AM »

I'm getting used to it. I never used Expose, so its all about the spaces for me. The one thing that I like is being able to see all the desktops and apps on their respective monitor, rather than all lumped up into one. With 6 monitors, the Spaces view never really helped. It's clunky and a bit slower, but it'll do.
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« Reply #12 on: August 17, 2011, 09:31:37 AM »

Just installed 10.7.1, seems stable and has cleared up a couple bugs that were pissing me off. Most specifically, I use the optical out on my 'pro and iTunes was getting into a dither with it, causing CPU load and actually stuttering/skipping on playback. SEEMS TO BE cleared up. More as I know it. Other than that, nothing big.

Looking forward to 10.7.2, which should begin the turn up of cloud services. Nutballs has said that iOS5 is pretty awesome (I've chosen not to install the beta since it will dick with syncing for the rest of my family) so I'm pretty excited to see how it all starts to come together.
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« Reply #13 on: August 17, 2011, 09:22:04 PM »

New interesting ditty - after several hours of operation today, kernel_task is back up in the 90-150% zone and the machine slows to a crawl.

(iTunes hasn't puked on me, but this kernel_task thing has been a bitch for a while now)

Ran smcFanControl, which I have not run in quite a long time. It is a little utility that lets me monitor the internal temperature of my Mac Pro and adjust the fan revolutions manually. The internal temp on my mac was in the upper 90s. (Small wonder, here in the 7th ring of hell that is Phoenix). After reflecting on how many posts I've seen where people complain of similar symptoms on their Macbook Airs that get too hot, I spooled up the revs and dropped the temperature to the high 70s. Seems to be overall way more happy. I'm wondering if Lion just pushes my aging machine a bit harder (no forgiveness from my workload either) and my continually open windows to the cloud and remote services is keeping it a bit hotter.

I'll post more as I know it. At this point it is intriguingly relaxed and peaceful.
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kurdt
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« Reply #14 on: August 18, 2011, 03:59:06 AM »

Just installed 10.7.1, seems stable and has cleared up a couple bugs that were pissing me off. Most specifically, I use the optical out on my 'pro and iTunes was getting into a dither with it, causing CPU load and actually stuttering/skipping on playback. SEEMS TO BE cleared up. More as I know it. Other than that, nothing big.

Looking forward to 10.7.2, which should begin the turn up of cloud services. Nutballs has said that iOS5 is pretty awesome (I've chosen not to install the beta since it will dick with syncing for the rest of my family) so I'm pretty excited to see how it all starts to come together.
Mission Control seems to be a bit smoother with 10.7.1 but it still sucks Smiley
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