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Author Topic: iPhone Under Attack from Android Invasion  (Read 5914 times)
isthisthingon
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« on: November 04, 2009, 08:49:42 AM »

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Ultimately, Android will have greater market share than iPhone. It is virtually inevitable. Even if neither the Droid, nor the Cliq, nor any other device end up beating the iPhone as a device, the sheer volume of Android-based handsets pretty much guarantees that Android will pass iPhone as an operating system. Its simply a numbers game.

Yay!!  Forget about Verizon's crappy this or Sprint's crappy that.  Android is open source.  That's the real deal for me


http://tech.yahoo.com/news/pcworld/20091103/tc_pcworld/iphoneunderattackfromandroidinvasion
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perkiset
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« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2009, 09:33:06 AM »

It may well be that Android phones will have a larger market share than iPhone ... but the only people that will care are those that want to see Apple beaten. Android, in and of itself, is meaningless.

BSD, the basis for OS-X is open source. Android is open source. But you won't get the code for Verizon's (x) phone nor will you for Apple's OS-X. You sign a contract with AT&T, you sign a contract with Verizon. The only significant difference is that when you're out of contract on the iPhone it won't work anywhere else and you have to jailbreak it to go to another carrier, if you leave Verizon with your phone you may be able to hook it up to other services (hardware capabilities pending). And even that is supposed to attenuate in 2010.

It's bullschtein that you see a difference, it's simply that you don't like Apple - admit it! FFS it's dripping from every character of your posts. And that doesn't bother me at all, except that it performs a severe limiting on your objectivity and capability to evaluate technology.

There are (and will be more) phones that have more/different/cheaper/cooler/WTFever features than the iPhone. But it is damn significant technology today and will continue to evolve. It's arguable that it is the phone that created Android. Android may (although there's a piece of me that doubts that article in a big way) do better than iPhone, but that's like saying Windows is more prevalent than Apple ... it's a meaningless comparison. Android as a framework has nothing to gain except popularity ... it's when Verizon produces a phone that beats Apple ... then we'll see.

And by the way - after having read PC World/Week for the last 2 decades++, I can assure you that they are every bit as much anti-Mac and bought-and-paid Wintel as anything on the Apple side. You ask ME how I keep dinner down? It's the Republican party of the technology world. Vomit
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2009, 11:46:22 AM »

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Android, in and of itself, is meaningless.

 Undecided 

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the basis for OS-X is open source.

True.  Open but not free as in freedom.

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Android is open source.

Android is Free Software, which requires it to also be open source. 

"Android is the first free, open source, and fully customizable mobile platform. Android offers a full stack: an operating system, middleware, and key mobile applications. It also contains a rich set of APIs that allows third-party developers to develop great applications." - OHA

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But you won't get the code for Verizon's (x) phone

Under the Apache version of the Free Software license this is possible, especially for Verizon since they are not members of the OHA.  Regarding the Apache V2 license:

"If the Open Handset Alliance is giving it all away for free, how will the platform be differentiated?  Because the Apache license does not have a copyleft clause, industry players can add proprietary functionality to their products based on Android without needing to contribute anything back to the platform. As the entire platform is open, companies can remove functionality if they choose. Applications are not set in stone, and differentiation is always possible. For example, if you want to include Hotmail instead of Gmail, it will not be an issue."

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nor will you for Apple's OS-X.

True - it's not based on a free software license, like Android: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-software_license 

Have you looked at the Open Handset Alliance? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Handset_Alliance  Impressive list of members, with Acer joining recently as well.  Apple, Microsoft and AT&T are not members.  But these folks are: http://www.openhandsetalliance.com/oha_members.html

Hopefully this helps to explain why I'm viewed as an Apple hater when I'm actually just a free software guy
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perkiset
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« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2009, 12:09:35 PM »

True.  Open but not free as in freedom.

Quote from: Wikipedia
Darwin is an open source POSIX-compliant computer operating system released by Apple Inc. in 2000. It is composed of code developed by Apple, as well as code derived from NEXTSTEP, BSD, and other free software projects. Darwin forms the core set of components upon which Mac OS X and iPhone OS are based. It is compatible with the Single UNIX Specification version 3 (SUSv3) and POSIX UNIX applications and utilities.

Darwin is the essence of OS-X. It is free (as in speech and beer) and open source. Note that it is an extension of BSD, which was also open source, and that Darwin was released further as open source.


Under the Apache version of the Free Software license this is possible, especially for Verizon since they are not members of the OHA.  Regarding the Apache V2 license:

"If the Open Handset Alliance is giving it all away for free, how will the platform be differentiated?  Because the Apache license does not have a copyleft clause, industry players can add proprietary functionality to their products based on Android without needing to contribute anything back to the platform. As the entire platform is open, companies can remove functionality if they choose. Applications are not set in stone, and differentiation is always possible. For example, if you want to include Hotmail instead of Gmail, it will not be an issue."
In other words, pretty much exactly what OS-X is to Darwin.


Have you looked at the Open Handset Alliance?

[clip]

Hopefully this helps to explain why I'm viewed as an Apple hater when I'm actually just a free software guy
@ alliance: No, but it's really immaterial to the argument: it's OS software on a piece of technology. Phone or computer, doesn't matter. Free (AIS) and open source software used to create a platform that is not required to return anything to the community or be open source itself. Products that will require a contract, doing precisely the same thing as Apple on the phone, companies doing the same as Apple with regards to an OS, except that they are ONLY using a framework created by Google, not even returning anything at all to the community, as Apple did with Darwin.

So I'm afraid I only find your position as clear as mud  ROFLMAO
« Last Edit: November 04, 2009, 12:11:08 PM by perkiset » Logged

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« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2009, 12:34:11 PM »

Just as a side note, much of what Apple has done is released as free and open source. Much, much more than Windows and arguably they are in the top tier of companies like themselves that create and release this way. I had assumed that you knew more of this. Here are some choice wikipedia entries (provided we can agree that Wikipedia is at least a reasonable source of data for this discussion):

Quote
Darwin's heritage began with NeXT's NEXTSTEP operating system (later known as OPENSTEP), first released in 1989. After Apple bought NeXT in 1997, it announced it would base its next operating system on OPENSTEP. This was developed into Rhapsody in 1997 and the Rhapsody-based Mac OS X Server 1.0 in 1999. In 2000, Rhapsody was forked into Darwin and released as open-source software under the Apple Public Source License (APSL), and components from Darwin are present in Mac OS X today

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The Apple Public Source License is the open source and free software license under which Apple's Darwin operating system was released. A free software and open source license was voluntarily adopted to further involve the community from which much of Darwin originated.
The first version of the Apple Public Source License was approved by the Open Source Initiative (OSI). Version 2.0, released July 29, 2003 conforms to the Free Software Foundation guidelines, and is also approved by the OSI. The Free Software Foundation approved the Apple Public Source License 2.0 as a free software license, and while they say it is acceptable for developers to work on projects that are already covered by this license, they recommend that developers do not release new projects under this license, because it is not compatible with the GNU General Public License, and is not a copyleft license, because it allows linking with files released entirely as proprietary software.[3]
Many software releases from Apple have now been relicensed under the more liberal and less controversial Apache License, such as the Bonjour Zeroconf stack.
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vsloathe
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« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2009, 12:41:02 PM »

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BSD, the basis for OS-X is open source.

k, I see you use this all the time and I've never been in a pedantic mood.

1) BSD is not open source, FreeBSD and OpenBSD are. They're all different enough to warrant different names, trust me.

2) OSX is not based on BSD, is it based on NeXT, which borrows some code from BSD but is in fact NOT open source. Steve Jobs is responsible for NeXT, the BSD foundation had little to nothing to do with it.
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« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2009, 12:43:52 PM »

Also, who's comparing Apple to Microsoft?

Google came up with Android. In this endeavor, I support Google in spite of our differences as they are doing much more to advance the state of the art than the iPhone did (the iPhone advanced *acceptance* of technology, just like Microsoft has been doing for years. NOT technology).
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« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2009, 01:02:33 PM »

Irrespective even of it's lineage, Darwin, the cumulative effort of NeXT and Apple and the basis upon which OS-X is built, is open source.

@ MSFT/AAPL - None really, only in passing. They're simply another big dog in this fight. We'll see more if they ever get Danger or Pink out the door in any meaningful fashion.

@Advance: Although I would agree that OHA and Android contribute to the openness of the entire mobile platform, I would not agree that, conversely, the iPhone has done nothing to further technology (other than acceptance of it). In many ways, the phones we see being developed on the Android platform are intellectual children of the iPhone. Apple did incredible work aggregating technologies, UI notions, syncing methodology and developer consciousness into a cohesive system that will be copied for a long, long time. You can point to examples of almost all the components littered about the floor of history... but Apple DID IT. They made it all happen. That took a shitload of work, research, money and time. Make no mistake: in this technology instance, it is the iPhone's shoulders upon which an awful lot of new phones will be standing.
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« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2009, 01:10:09 PM »

LOL - this just in, it appears that Apple was called to task and managed to get just portions of their OS to be qualified as open source.  It took a crackdown from the community to rip this concession from them.  But to this point I would say yes perks, intentionally confusing terminology aside, they have been recently granted to legally make this claim.  Mind you, just like how free software attempted to shake off the fleas of "open source" capitalist impersonators, copyleft still remains free from such perversions (GPL) and Andriod will and is certainly already being used all over the place in this fashion.  The Apache license is one of the most liberal, allowing you to produce copyleft software, and copyright.  OS X is forever not copyleft, since by time it gets into anyone's hands it's already been obscured by Apple.

So Verizon might be just as Appley as Apple.  But Android itself is one level up, empowering me to choose copyleft or copyright with it's use.  I could be Appley or Linuxey, it's all up to me Smiley

If it's fair to post from a cult of a single, profit based company then an opposing view from a non-profit, freedom fighting foundation is extremely fair game.  So here's a sample from the "resistance":



5 reasons to avoid iPhone 3G
http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/5-reasons-to-avoid-iphone-3g
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2009, 01:38:44 PM »

This was prior to Apple caving in to get their foot barely in the "legal" door:

Why free software and Apple's iPhone don't mix
http://www.fsf.org/blogs/community/why-free-software-and-apples-iphone-dont-mix

Also, here's the recent change I was referring to: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/essays/apsl.html  Good direction for Apple but let's face it, there's nothing but profit and control in those intentions.  Perhaps true for Google too you may say?  But of course!  What's the difference then?

Android itself is like the raw material before the IP monsters can get to it.  The iPhone has already been assimilated into the Borg.
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« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2009, 02:01:55 PM »

Apple released Darwin as open source (and was approved by the FSF) in 2003. The license at that time was APSL 2.0, which eliminates virtually all of the problems of the APSL 1.0.

Many of Apple's works are, in fact, also released under the Apache license. Their history of releasing things into the Open Source world is not recent, nor because of any stranglehold by the FSF.

Contrary to your notion of Apple being dragged kicking and screaming, I see them working hard to try to be as open as possible while still protecting their proprietary stuff. Which I also see you completely disagreeing with, but until Steve Jobs drops acid and frolics naked down Wall Street, giving away free copies of the source for OSX with a "Please use this to better the world - at our cost and your benefit" license I don't seeing you and I agreeing.
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2009, 02:16:28 PM »

 ROFLMAO ROFLMAO ROFLMAO

Nice image Wink
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perkiset
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« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2009, 02:23:18 PM »

"Possessions are a bummer" Wink
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isthisthingon
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« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2009, 02:29:37 PM »

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"Possessions are a bummer"

 ROFLMAO

Hey it looks like Microsoft got the same memo!! http://www.microsoft.com/opensource/ Wink  I always knew they were capable of being as benevolent as Apple Devilish

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« Reply #14 on: November 06, 2009, 11:19:50 AM »

I have that same sticker on the lid of one of my laptops, ITTO. It's plastered with FSF stickers and hippie free-software-advocate propaganda. It's the one I use on the rare occasion I'm asked to do security work  Devilish
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