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Author Topic: Fun experiment, OS-X, Parallels and Linux  (Read 11254 times)
perkiset
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« on: July 18, 2007, 08:56:14 AM »

I just had one of my Linux renderers go down in my cage - poor bastard of a machine's HD has been running non-stop for about 6 years now. Sheesh, you call that reliability?  ROFLMAO

But I digress. What I am doing is using a cheap little MacMini with a dual core Intel to run Parallels, and then in Parallels running Red Hat 9 and Apache 1.3 with a custom built shared object hanging off it as this old machine did. It flies! It's much faster than the dual proc machine that the site used to run on. Also, since its a virtualized environment, I can copy the whole mess onto another machine effortlessly. Virtualization rocks, under OS-X it's a snap. The part about this that is so cool, is that this all revolves around compiling Kylix (Delphi for Linux) in a virtualized environment on my Mac - something that I'd wager isn't done much  ( Roll Eyes for good reason, really) into shared objects for Apache - it's a bit persnickety to get it all working in a perfect environment... doing it on a Mac is wild - and given the skittish nature of Kylix I didn't think it could be done.

For anyone else considering Parallels, it is fantastic - on my notebook I have an instance of 95, 98, 2000, 2003 and XP for testing and emulating a few clients installations. Well, the 95 and 98 were just fer old times sake... Wink The new "Coherence Mode" allows me to run IE right on my desktop side-by-side with Safari, FF ro Windows and FF for Mac. For me anyway, the ability to snap through all the primary browsers so quickly during WH site testing is really a time saver. I also have some of my clients now running Macs (they wanted to switch) but they had custom built apps that only ran in Windows - well install Parallels and Voila! They work beautifully!

Parallels Ass Kisser Perk yeah yeah, I know...

Just thought I'd share.
/p
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« Reply #1 on: July 18, 2007, 04:06:25 PM »

A couple months ago my old laptop died so I buy an A8J ASUS, to be honest i had no idea what a Core2 Duo is but it seems to make a big difference.
Anyway i install ubuntu linux on it. Before when i would generate the markov would take up all the cpu. (i use the markov written in erlang) and talk to it with a socket form an external program. Anyway the ubuntu bar shows 2 cpu Smiley, and while i am generating i still can do other stuff.

Anyway i digress. Point is that i after i stopped having to build my own computer out of stuff i pulled out of the garbage, i no longer bother with learning about hardware Smiley.

It appears i could have buy a minimac for same price i pay for my ASUS ? (I pay like $1000 US) Also from my understanding all of the gcc tools and libs work fine with OS X. Maybe next time i will consider some sort of mac.

On my laptop i run vmware. Basically it is so i can run MS Explorer. I have been scripting MS Explorer with Perl OLE. That way i do not have to dig thru all of the stupid ajax calls etc that some silly sites put up Smiley. VMWare runs pretty good on my laptop. While my ms explorer is doing it's stuff in the VM I can work on other stuff. (granted it a memory pig, but my laptop have 1.5 G memory).

What is the advantage of parallels over VMWare ?






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perkiset
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« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2007, 07:10:56 AM »

It appears i could have buy a minimac for same price i pay for my ASUS ? (I pay like $1000 US) Also from my understanding all of the gcc tools and libs work fine with OS X. Maybe next time i will consider some sort of mac.

On my laptop i run vmware. Basically it is so i can run MS Explorer. I have been scripting MS Explorer with Perl OLE. That way i do not have to dig thru all of the stupid ajax calls etc that some silly sites put up Smiley. VMWare runs pretty good on my laptop. While my ms explorer is doing it's stuff in the VM I can work on other stuff. (granted it a memory pig, but my laptop have 1.5 G memory).

What is the advantage of parallels over VMWare ?
Parallels runs on a Mac, VMWare doesn't AFAIK.

GCC etc all comes with the Mac - well, it all comes on the install CD, they don't come with all of that on the box to start with. On the CD they have a "developer tools" option - load that and you've got everything you'd be expecting.

It is worthwhile considering if the price makes sense - a Mac Mini for me is about 599 - that's a pretty fast dual-core Intel box with all the necessary peripherals already installed - in a really small footprint.
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« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2007, 09:29:09 AM »

Parallels runs on a Mac, VMWare doesn't AFAIK.

VMWare runs on Mac as "VMWare Fusion", but its still beta but expected to released as final soon. Featurewise they are nearly the same, except it is said, that VMWares support of hardware acceleration and 3D software is solved a little bit better or has a better performance. Other than that expect nearly the same abilities and behavior, even the price is the same.

Ok, if you really want a advantage of vmware over parallels: there are a lot of free images of virtual machines for it out there in the net, and you can use them with 'fusion', no matter if they are created on Win, Linux or a Mac. Don't know, if there are such images for parallels too ... but if you always create your virtual machines by yourself, you can neglect that fact Wink
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« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2007, 10:03:26 AM »

Interesting... I should look at VMWare then also.

I now have several clients (medical, mostly) using Parallels because they want to go Mac, but need a practice management ware that is only for Windoz to run. With Parallels I have the icon for <that> app in their dock, they click it - it fires up the correct virtual machine in "coherence mode" - which means that the window is open on the Mac desktop just as if it is a native app - the confusion factor is pretty low, which is pretty important for them  Roll Eyes

/p
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« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2007, 07:53:08 PM »

Hope this is not thread hijacking but..........

I'm in the market for a new laptop, my old one has some components that are becomming dodgy (including the screen) so it has been relegated to running as a pseudo server running Fedora (my current "attack platform" ;-) )

Anyway, perk has forced me to consider Macs   Don't make me...

http://store.apple.com/133-622/WebObjects/australiastore.woa/6484021/wo/Th3eHsZfr4SP2EpwmD9gB4EiHvC/8.?p=0
looking at the 2GBRAM and 120GB HDD options, I have to stay under 2K so I can keep living in the same house as my missus  ROFLMAO Promised that was the ceiling.

This particualar beastie represents excellent value as far as I can see but I'm interested in other's opinions. This would be a big step for me as I develop heavily using Windows dotnet and lots of gcc C++ stuff (I don't think this would be a huge leap) as well as the usual apache, PHP, Javascript mix but most of that's handled on my servers.
Now I know there would be a fairly steep learning curve but that doesn't really bother me, I owe no great allegiance to any OS, especially no Bill's.

Questions;

1: Does the vmware/parallels image have to be licensed for say XP?

2: Is the vmware/parallels environment robust enough to run something like Visual C++ Express?

3: I'm assuming I could have a dual boot Fedora Core 6/7 and Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger?

4: How far away is Leopard? Can I upgrade easily/cheaply?

In a pinch i could do any dotnet dev on an old Windows box the kids use, but that's not ideal of course.

Any input much appreciated guys, this is a big decision!  ROFLMAO

Cheers,
td

[edit]
Just found these which are also a definite option, they can be purchased without an OS and, IMHO are cheap for what they are although not a name brand. I could install the linux OS of choice and still run Windoze, etc. using vmware.

http://au.zepto.com/Shop/Notebooks.aspx
[/edit]
« Last Edit: July 21, 2007, 08:35:46 PM by thedarkness » Logged

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perkiset
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« Reply #6 on: July 22, 2007, 02:30:21 PM »

This particualar beastie represents excellent value as far as I can see but I'm interested in other's opinions. This would be a big step for me as I develop heavily using Windows dotnet and lots of gcc C++ stuff (I don't think this would be a huge leap) as well as the usual apache, PHP, Javascript mix but most of that's handled on my servers.
Now I know there would be a fairly steep learning curve but that doesn't really bother me, I owe no great allegiance to any OS, especially no Bill's.
At the core, it's an OpenBSD box... with all the associated greatness...


1: Does the vmware/parallels image have to be licensed for say XP?
Parallels and VMware do not come with a Windows license - they simply allow the operations of other OSs. You will need an XP or Vista or 2000 install disk to create the image. Personally I have 95, 98, 2000, 2003, XP and a RedHat 9 instance running. Effortless to get them going.


2: Is the vmware/parallels environment robust enough to run something like Visual C++ Express?
It's literally another machine. Unlie VirtualPC and the like, Parallels allows the gues operating system a sort of "tunnel" through to the processor to run natively. So you lose about 10% of total machine performance to allow the guest operating system, but other than thatm the instance is a for-reals instance of <whatver you install>.


3: I'm assuming I could have a dual boot Fedora Core 6/7 and Mac OS X v10.4 Tiger?
DualBoot is for rookies. Wink Using Parallels you can simplye boot up into OS-X, then launch whichever other OS you want. CAVEAT: if you want to run many guest OSs at the same time you'd better have enough RAM to run them all or your machine will start to crawl...

4: How far away is Leopard? Can I upgrade easily/cheaply?
October, and I don't know. It looks like I'll be upgrading on the benefits of the upgrade alone. But Tiger is worth the conversion all in and of itself.


In a pinch i could do any dotnet dev on an old Windows box the kids use, but that's not ideal of course.
I understand. It was concerning to me (when I was making the decision to switch) about having other machines. Now I have one... and it does everything. Everything. On top of that, I have 2 dual-head graphics cards on it so I have 4 monitors on my Mac. That's 1/2 of it's total potential... I can put up to 4 dual head graphics cards on this beast. But I am ADD enough already... Wink


Any input much appreciated guys, this is a big decision!  ROFLMAO
IMO: Lots of folks talk about Mac-only software... and all kinds of proprietary answers that are all bullshit. I have clients on Solaris only, Linux only, Windows (many different versions) only and Mac clients. I have to connect to a huge variety of direct connections, wireless connections, Windows servers, Samba servers, Macs servers... jeepers the list of ways that I have to connect is almost retarded. Add to that I have a boradband card and need to connect to Sprint broadband whenever I can't do something else.

Windows boneheads can't even come close to how fast I can connect to ANYTHING. My ability to adapt to <the current environment> is beyond anything I've ever used. I've been a windows MoFo since 3.1. That's how I've made my money. I'm a Mac guy though since 1985... and when my main Windows machine died 2 years ago I left Windows as my development platform and went all Mac.

I'll never go back.

Someone want to debate me? Bring it on. I've done it all. I've been in tech for 30 years. I've never seen a better machine. Fucking truth.

Bring it on Windoz lackies Wink

/p

(BTW - spent the day drinking Captain Morgans on the beach today... I'm in the right mood hehe...)
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« Reply #7 on: July 22, 2007, 05:53:51 PM »

Thanks perk,

I knew I could rely on you for an answer (I think the rum helped actually).

So your opinion is full steam ahead with the macbook huh? That's what I thought it would be  Grin

Well, it's not a done deal, but I'm closer to a decision, thanks.

Cheers,
td
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« Reply #8 on: July 22, 2007, 05:58:15 PM »

Quote
Windows boneheads can't even come close to how fast I can connect to ANYTHING. My ability to adapt to <the current environment> is beyond anything I've ever used. I've been a windows MoFo since 3.1. That's how I've made my money. I'm a Mac guy though since 1985... and when my main Windows machine died 2 years ago I left Windows as my development platform and went all Mac.
Hmmm that is not really a selling point Tongue
Fuking ubuntu running samba connects to a windoze share better then a windoze machine.
Windoze machine 1/2 the time can not find the share, ubuntu finds it right away lmfao.
Probably freedos has better connectivity then windoze  ROFLMAO
All aside i like windoze users Cheesy

Now that mac machines are lower in price, and basically they are running a fancy version of linux, probably i will switch over in a couple of years.
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perkiset
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« Reply #9 on: July 22, 2007, 08:16:45 PM »

Here's the kicker that did me: World class GUI with *n[u|i]x OS... stable as shit yet and all the benefits of a great GUI. I run about 5 terminal windows on a virtual desktop with all my other stuff... I get all the benefits without (virtually) any of the downsides.

No lie, and I'm not just being biased here: the Mac is the best machine I've ever used, soup to nuts. I could not imagine handling all of the different client shit I have to with a doz machine or a strictly *nix box... it's the juice.

BTW: it's been 3-olive vodka a Stella Artois since dinner time so I'm no less stupid ...  Grin

/p
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« Reply #10 on: July 22, 2007, 10:29:11 PM »

Well, I did more research today and since the macbook is intel based, cheaper than the alternative I'm looking at, equally powerful, capable of running Fedora if I decide to go that way at a later date, a name brand so probably/possibly higher quality, comes with a world class OS, etc. It seems to be pretty much a forgone conclusion that I'll go this way. I looked at developing on Tiger and it would appear that cocoa, the object oriented framework, is aimed at development in objective C. Carbon, the other alternative can be used from C++ but is procedural in nature, no biggie, there's always the open source alternatives to fall back on especially when you take parallel's compatability mode into consideration. Anyone aware of C++ dev tools under tiger?

Good thing you're not driving perk :-)

Cheers,
td
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« Reply #11 on: July 23, 2007, 02:49:43 AM »

4: How far away is Leopard? Can I upgrade easily/cheaply?

Yep, as Perk said, its said to be released end of october and will be $129,-. From what I heard an upgrade is much easier than under Win 'cause you simply can install/copy it over your old (Tiger) installation, system settings are kept and no  needing to do things like formating the disk before the upgrade/installation of the new version. Its like if you upgrade your Fedora, old files are replaced by new versions of it ... and in fact OS X is based on FreeBSD, a UNIX, the procedure is just the same  Smiley.
But if you ask me, october isn't far and if you want to save your $129,- I would wait, otherwise, buy it now Wink

Quote from: thedarkness link=topic=409.msg2679#msg2679
Anyone aware of C++ dev tools under tiger?

Take a look at Trolltechs QT4 --> Website, its a CrossPlattform Development Environment, which means, you can write your Code under MAc OS X and if you want, compile it later under Win or Linux, which has bindings to the native GUI-APIs of each OS.
QT is available under a GPL - license if you develop open source apps and a commercial license for - ... mh commercial projects Grin.
BTW, its the toolkit, KDE uses and because of its crossplattform abilities in version4 a lot of apps of the new KDE4 will be able to run natively under OS X and Win without needing X11 anymore and using  their native GUIs.
So I highly recommend it.
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« Reply #12 on: July 23, 2007, 05:43:16 AM »


Yep, as Perk said, its said to be released end of october and will be $129,-. From what I heard an upgrade is much easier than under Win 'cause you simply can install/copy it over your old (Tiger) installation, system settings are kept and no  needing to do things like formating the disk before the upgrade/installation of the new version. Its like if you upgrade your Fedora, old files are replaced by new versions of it ... and in fact OS X is based on FreeBSD, a UNIX, the procedure is just the same  Smiley.
But if you ask me, october isn't far and if you want to save your $129,- I would wait, otherwise, buy it now Wink

Can't wait that long I don't think but I know what you mean, thanks.


Take a look at Trolltechs QT4 --> Website, its a CrossPlattform Development Environment, which means, you can write your Code under MAc OS X and if you want, compile it later under Win or Linux, which has bindings to the native GUI-APIs of each OS.
QT is available under a GPL - license if you develop open source apps and a commercial license for - ... mh commercial projects Grin.
BTW, its the toolkit, KDE uses and because of its crossplattform abilities in version4 a lot of apps of the new KDE4 will be able to run natively under OS X and Win without needing X11 anymore and using  their native GUIs.
So I highly recommend it.

Very cool, I used to code some QT and kdelib stuff on redhat yonks ago, bet it's changed a bit since then but this is very good news, thanks again proton. Their license used to suck badly too I remember.....

You're new aroung here but you rock already... lol.

Thanks,
td
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perkiset
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« Reply #13 on: July 23, 2007, 08:36:10 AM »

You can even just go with an Eclipse and straight-up C++ rig if you wanted... the machine is that standard. The C++ work I did to create the PHP extension was built on my Mac using VI and gcc. 'Bout as old school as can be.

Question TD - why C/++/Object/Cocoa etc? Work thing?
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« Reply #14 on: July 23, 2007, 05:04:17 PM »

You can even just go with an Eclipse and straight-up C++ rig if you wanted... the machine is that standard.

Eclipse, never heard of it b4 but it too is a good option, excellent, appears to be no shortage of options, I did suspect as much but this is new territory so........

The C++ work I did to create the PHP extension was built on my Mac using VI and gcc. 'Bout as old school as can be.

Yeah, I'm all over that part like stink on a monkey, be right at home with all the GNU tools on the command line.

Question TD - why C/++/Object/Cocoa etc? Work thing?

No, not at all, as you know I like coding in C++ (it's my favourite regardless of whether that's a good or bad thing) and I just would be more comfortable knowing there are options for developing native apps. on my new platform of choice (plus it's sounding like I may be able to do cross-platform stuff much easier). I'm comfortable with the answers you and proton have been able to provide. It's more a "warm and fuzzy feeling" thing than any real necessity.

When you get back perk, give me a ping so we can talk more about this and a couple of other things.

Cheers,
td
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