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[isthisthingon]

http://www.pcworld.com/article/226354/android_outranks_apple_in_desirability_and_thats_huge.html

Here's why that's significant: In all the months we've been measuring Android's astronomical rise, there have always been skeptical explanations about what's happening and why. The most common comment I see is the "Android's only winning because it's cheap" theory -- the hypothesis that people really want iPhones but settle for Android phones because their carriers offer good sales.

Nielsen's new study, in asking what mobile operating system consumers want, lends credit to the notion that -- yep -- plenty of folks pick Android phones for more than just their price. We're looking at desirability here, after all. The "cool" factor. What triggers that "gotta have it" impulse deep within your noggin.

Something tells me that if this research proves to be valid, that Apple might be facing a rather ugly domino effect. It's not easy to tout the "best in class" aspect of your product only to switch back to battling on price. If the iPhone becomes less desirable and remains far more expensive than its more desirable competitors, that spells trouble for Apple 

[perkiset]

31% to 30%? An entire OS base against a single phone?

From that guy's own words he's bragging and told-you-so'ing. I think he's spinning hard because he's a self-proclaimed Android fanboi. Not that that's a bad thing, but it definitely puts the article into the same light as stuff from Cult of Mac and such.

[nop_90]

In America Apple will always have an edge.
Mainly because people in America remember apple from the good ole days.

As I said before Apple ignored the Asian market.
In Asia, Apple does not have the 30+ years of reputation to back themselves up with.
So from a "reputation" perspective they are on equal ground.
In Asia they are getting their ass kicked.
In the Philippines, Globe has been pushing IPhone etc hard, they can not penetrate.

The IMF announced that China's economy will surpass USA by 2016, maybe earlier, 10+ years earlier then projected.
There are more cellphones in China then USA/Canada/Europe combined.
Apple has thrown away that potential market also.
Also china is not longer exporting crappy toys they sell in Walmart, most of that stuff they have outsourced to vietnam etc.
Their largest exports are now optical equipment, medical equipment etc.

Cherry Mobile (a chinese manufacture) has released a tablet for 20K Peso, ~$450
http://www.techpinas.com/2010/10/cherry-mobile-superion-tablet-phone-php.html
It is 3g, unlocked, and looks almost the same as the galaxy tab.
You have to work pretty hard to convince someone they should buy a product 2x the price, just because it has a picture of an apple on it.

Anyway what do I know, I am just an andriod fanboi. Or an anti-apple fanboi or some crap like that.
Wait I was told Chinese have no ability to "innovate".
Yes as of 2 months ago, China now publishes the same amount of scientific papers as USA.
Their amount of papers is increasing, USA's is decreasing.

Apple is probably winning in America, but the American market will become the new Asia, as Asia becomes the new America.
So it will be an ever decreasing market.

[isthisthingon]

>The IMF announced that China's economy will surpass USA by 2016

America's GDP actually increases when we borrow/spend money. Therefore we'll remain unsurpassed until the value of the dollar resembles the German Papiermark in 1923

[daviator]

Apple has thrown away the China market?

From what I've read, they are opening new stores like crazy there, and can't keep up with the huge demand for their products.  As a result there is a black market in iPhones and iPads since Apple's stores can barely keep them in stock.

I think they are doing well in many other parts of Asia too.  Maybe not #1 everywhere, but doing well.

[nop_90]

I don't know about China since I am not there.
Apple in the Philippines is doing ok, but nothing spectacular.
There are apple stores here, but it is a hard sell.

Globe keeps on trying to cut its prices etc.

[isthisthingon]

Call me crazy, but wouldn't Apple be able to sell their products for less in China since they would save on shipping? 

[nop_90]

Call me crazy, but wouldn't Apple be able to sell their products for less in China since they would save on shipping? 

Big issues Apple faces, they made really bad deals with the telecoms.
Apple prices are heavily subsidized by the stupid plans.
So in malaysia, an unlocked ipad 2 is going for like $1100K +.
It is insane.

Also Apple does not understand the market here.
They only sell in Apple stores etc.
People here like "prepaid" load.
If I pay per hour with prepaid, it is 20 peso per hour. (~$0.40)
For 50 peso I can get all day.

Also most phones here are not sold thru large stores but though smaller venders.

[perkiset]

I think there's a missing component to the argument re. China, Malaysia etc.

apple has never been the company to sell the low cost solution. They sell a high value solution and often thats more expensive. they also sell the high end solution which is always more expensive and more exclusive.

So the gigantic masses of people that cannot afford an iPad are not interesting to them. They can put stores up where they have a chance of selling what they make. And they clearly understand where that is quite well, because where they have deployed they have done really well.

It is not a failing of business to focus your target, it is the essence of good business. One may say, "but look at all the money they are leaving on the table!!" I assert that client-type creep can be one of the most deadly things to a business and Apple is brilliant to stay where they are. The Nokias, Sonys, RIMs etc of the world will chase the cheap customer, Apple will chase the spender.

Their market cap and cash reserves tell that story way better than I can.

[isthisthingon]

@perks - you just nicely summed up my distaste for Apple.

True, it's their strength and their market cap reflects this convincingly. As a technologist, however, I find this practice of chasing the spenders rather than the spendthrifts regardless of whether the product is in anyway better than far less expensive and otherwise equal choices (see Apple RAM upgrade). There's also an inherent elitism with Apple now that wasn't the case back in the day. The more elitist dollars that flow their way along with the associated assumptions of being technologically "wiser" for owning an Apple than others who make other choices creates quite a distasteful picture, imho.

It's become a club for the designer-jean-wearing privileged. Apple lost its way a long time ago, or rather they were a ruse before and later found their true path in life: $$$

They can keep their cool 

[perkiset]

It is true that there was a real Yin/Yang thing between Jobs and Woz, Woz being the for-everyone element and Jobs being the salesman. No argument. And in many ways its a bummer that Jobs won. But in many other ways, had he not fought for his vision, the world may not have several of the innovations he/Apple pushed.

But there's a difference here: Android tablets of less capability sell for more than Apple. Apple in this case is the best value offering, and is no where near pricing themselves out of the market - in fact, virtually every day a report comes out that comes out claims its unknown how Android tabs will ever really compete because they cant bring the bang for buck that Apple has achieved.

I think your post sums up a lot: Apple is despised by a lot of people because ... they don't like Apple. To satisfy the subjective nature of that position, arguments are created like, more expensive, elitist etc. But it's not holistically true (certainly not today, anyway - Apple has definitely had their too-expensive days). If you purchase a Dell that is as powerful and valuable as an iMac you'll pay the same or more. And it's gigantically true that you can find LOTS AND LOTS of computers that are pretty damn good for much less than a MacMini. But dollar-for-dollar and feature-for-feature, the MacMini is not priced into oblivion, its a reasonable option that has high bang-for-buck. It is by no means always the best tool for the job: but it's not an elitist or out of touch option either.

I think that Apple is Sally, and PC/Android folks are more Harry. From an objective, observational position we can see that both have their points and downsides, but from within each of their personnae they are untelligible to the other.

[nop_90]

I think there's a missing component to the argument re. China, Malaysia etc.

apple has never been the company to sell the low cost solution. They sell a high value solution and often thats more expensive. they also sell the high end solution which is always more expensive and more exclusive.

"BMW, Mercedes Increase Sales Growth in China"
http://www.bmwblog.com/2011/04/18/bmw-mercedes-increase-sales-growth-in-china/
BMW and Mercedes continue their impressive growth in China. A report by Bloomberg states that the sales growth are rapidly increasing at more than nine times the pace of wider industry. The two premium automakers sold combined 102,497 vehicles during the first quarter of 2011, a 76 percent increase over last year. Industrywide growth is reported to be 8.1 percent.
The Chinese market leader, Audi, has also seen a 25 percent increase to 64,122 cars delivered in the first quarter.
Does not seem like a "cheap" market to me.

If you would look up the stats for HK,taiwan,malaysia,indonesia,philippines etc you would see similar trend.
In malaysia and singapore the standard of living is now higher then USA. In singapore not only is it higher, but there is less income disparity.
Also the Chinese economy according to the latest IMF reports is expected to surpass the US one in 2016.

So the gigantic masses of people that cannot afford an iPad are not interesting to them. They can put stores up where they have a chance of selling what they make. And they clearly understand where that is quite well, because where they have deployed they have done really well.
......
Their market cap and cash reserves tell that story way better than I can.

You go to the Apple store in Mega Mall (Manila) it is empty. All the other stores are jam packed.
Mega Mall is an middle upper class mall, used to be the largest in the world.
In Edsa Shang, Green Belt - I do not even think they have an Apple store. This is an Upper Class mall where Omega,Cartier has a store etc.
Market cap and reserves tell the story last year
So anyway I have show that Asians are able to purchase luxaury goods, and probably in 5 years they will be buying more luxaury goods then entire USA.

My point is that in USA, "Apple" has the same type of brand name that rivals BMW, Mercedes etc.
In Asia, Apple is just another shitty overpriced smart phone/tablet maker.

[perkiset]

Nobody cares about Manilla anyway

If the only way for something to be "successful" is to have complete, utter world domination then there is not a brand in the world that is successful. It's easy to say, "well if they're not popular here then they will not succeed." That's a rather baloney argument. Apple is, by any measure, fantastically successful and continues to increase their march towards being a truly global force. And DV8R is correct: China is an up and coming market for them. Let's not kid ourselves: 10 years ago Apple was in no position AT ALL to even barely wipe their own asses much less go global. It's taken them a long time to get to where they are, and they have the capital and capability to go bigbigbig now.

[nop_90]

There are a "few" brands that have world domination.
But they have changed their marketing strategy for each region they are in.
Coke and Pepsi are classic examples of this. Nike to some degree also.
So I could argue the "Coke" you buy in Az is not the same as in Manila.
Chemically it is the same product, from a consumer perspective no.

You hinted at this a long time ago.
But the bottom line is that it does not matter what the product actually does, but if people are happy with it.
Omega watches is the "classic" example of this.
Functionality wise, it does exactly the same thing as the $1 watch you get for free from McDs.
Obviously the consumer does not think so, otherwise they would not be throwing down $3K+ a bang

It's easy to say, "well if they're not popular here then they will not succeed." That's a rather baloney argument. Apple is, by any measure, fantastically successful and continues to increase their march towards being a truly global force.

They fail to understand the "Asian market". I can see it from their advertisements etc.
Again it depends on what their strategy is.
The Asian market is very fickle, and down right vicious by Western Standards.
To succeed in the Asian market you have to be able to read the Art of War and understand it.
But if you figure out how to play it, the potential is tremendous.
Apple saying "I don't want to play there" is a strategy

Jolibee is a classic example
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jollibee
They kicked the ass of all other fast food chains in the Philippines.
Story in a nutshell.
In ~1980 Tony Tan had a few small burger stands.
Him and a Chinoy friend where having drinks.
His friend sarcastically remarked, you better shut down your burger stands before McD runs you out of business.
He then asked, what do you mean ?
His friend replied well they they announced that they are starting operations in the Philippines in 2 years. Everywhere else they wiped out the competition.
So Tony Tan said I better do something about that.
He then booked a flight to LA. As soon as he arrived in LA he told the taxi driver to take him to the nearest McDs.
Over the next week, he just went from McD to McD in LA, sitting inside the place and studying it.
After a week he learned everything he needed to know, then hoped on a plane back to Manila.
He then took all of McDs methods, but adapted them to an "Asian Methodology".
So by the time McDs arrived in 2 years, he already had ironed out all the kinks in his methods.
When McD arrived they offered to buy his company, he told then no thank you.
He then proceeded to kick McDs ass
That is business Asian style Sales in the Philippines are ~$1.2 billion a year, revenue ~$55 million.
And now they have expanded in China,Malay,Middle East etc

You can not do that in USA

[daviator]

And the Jollibee in SF went belly-up a few months back and closed.  What works in one place doesn't necessarily work in another.